12/4    Debian users: anyone brave enough to run unstable?  How is it? -randal
        \_ its usually pretty good.
        \_ unstable is pretty stable.  apt-get update a few times, just be
        warned that the packages maybe updated rather frequently.  - paolo
        (note that 2.4 doesn't have a .deb for it yet, so you'll still be on
        the 2.2x branch)
        \_ It's been great for me.  Just follow the packages that give you
           trouble, installing the minimum necessary.  Don't use apt-get
           upgrade unless you have the time to sort out random problems!
           You'll just start the new-package churn all over again.  After
           a few weeks, things should settle and your box be good-n-stable.
        \_ It is "stable" enough to run on your desktop box. But it is
              \_ Unless we put warning labels on Guns how will people know?
                 I mean some kindly old lady got burned by hot coffee at
                 MickeyD's; think of what will happen with Guns!?! Oh the
                 horror.
           not the best OS to run on a production server of any sort since
           it is a work in progress and it is changing on a daily basis.
           \_ This goes without saying for any "unstable" release.  This is
              like saying, "Playing Russian Roulette with an automatic weapon
              is likely to lead to head trauma".
                \_ Colorful turn of phrase.  My compliments.

12/4    Work kind of sucks.  In fact, it seems like most of the work
        people do is of no long term significance.  Why can't we
        do without it?
        \_ Nothing anyone does is of any long term significance:
           if you consider a long enough term.  --PeterM
        \_ Walden.  Been there.  Done that.
        \_ Because most people need to pay rent/mortgage, eat, etc.
           \_ If nobody had to work, the few necessary things like
              food and shelter could easily be taken care of.
        \_ because idle hands are the devil's work. Eg: idle people
           become drug dealers.
           \_ Just like idle CPUs.
        \_ capitalism is based on the many shouldering the burderns of
           the few.
                \_ Say what?  Care to explain?
                   \_ It means that you slave away, to keep 'da man' in
                      blow and ho's.
                      \_ just 'cause u not a playa dont mean u gotta
                         be a hater. - #1 stunna

12/4    E-COmmerce sucks. COmputer science rewls.
        \_ Got fired from http://dogfood.com?
        \_ Doing work sucks, playing around with a hobby rules.  Good luck
           guy, hope you can come up with something intersting for the
           academic community to attack.
        \_ You got your whole life to find something that you like to do
           and that someone will pay you for doing.  Get to it.  If you
           can read the MOTD, it's not hard to get there from this point
           in your life.
        \_ Computer science doesn't pay for my Armani collection and
           my awsome Boxster                    -paper millionaire
           \_ But I am perfectly happy with blue jeans and t-shirt,
              and my little Miata.

12/3    Does FreeBSD have any xti/tli support?  (or does Linux?)
        \_ xti/tli are dead.  Long live sockets!

12/3    Are there production C++ compilers that'll analyze the control flow
        on pure virtual functions to optimize the overhead of polymorphism
        calls?
        \_ Yes.
        \_ ugh, flow? pure virtual? Poly what? !??!??!?
                \_ Poly want a cracker!

12/3    TiVo for $99! (14 hours, $199 - $100 rebate, service not included)
        http://www.wholesaleconnection.com
        \_ Geez, how much tv do you people watch?  What's wrong with just
           flipping thru the channels to see what's on?  If nothing's to
           your liking, read a book.
                \_ It's not how much you watch, it's when you watch.
                   TiVo lets you set the schedule for your favorite shows.
                   \_ A VCR lets you do the same thing. The only
                      reason to use tivo that I can think of is
                      that it runs LinSUX.
                      that it runs Red Hat Linux.
                      \_ No, a VCR requires you to study a stupid TV schedule
                         of some sort, get the time write, get the channel
                         right, keep track of when they fucking change the
                         schedule on your favorite shows, etc etc.

12/3    50% off video games & "family" videos/dvds at
        http://www.familywonder.com

12/4    XCF on Salon (sorry for the /. posting):
        http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2000/12/04/xcf/index.html
        \_ also on http://slashdot.org
           says, it cannabilised Undergraduate Comp Facility
           but led to the formation of OCF.
           if XCF dies, perhaps OCF could take over its property? ;)
           \_ hahahah you'll have to pry the 200Mbit nettaps and PIII
              coppermines away from Vadim's cold dead hands before you touch
              it.
                \_ Don't go there.  You'll regret it.
        \_ that article is worthless as an XCF newsposting.  it doesnt even
        mention vadim - when the ugrads get moved to elsewhere, vadim will
        still be in soda. Why don't you check out vadim.[cs|eecs].berkeley.edu
        there is no xcf, there is only vadim.
        \_ and eric
           \_ "Always there are 2, a master, and an apprentice."
        \_ spencer!!!!!!!!!  --chris

12/4    What would cause a SIGBUS on linux x86? The classical misaligned memory
        access doesn't. Post a minimal C snippet if possible.
        \_ Using a shared memory mapping to write past the last page of
           a file:

             int f = mkstemp(strdup("/tmp/sigbus.XXXXXX"));
             char *x = mmap(0, 4096, PROT_READ | PROT_WRITE, MAP_SHARED, f, 0);
             *x = 0;

           (If you really want to do that, use ftruncate(2) to extend the
           file before you write to it.)  --mconst
           (If you want to do that, use ftruncate(2) to extend the file
           before you write to it.)  --mconst
           \_ this sounds like a protection problem, because you're hitting
              part of the addr space that's not mapped. why does it produce
              a sigbus? -ali
              \_ It is mapped -- that mmap call maps 4K, regardless of how
                 big the file is.  If we'd used MAP_PRIVATE, then that 4K
                 region would be backed by swap, and the code would work
                 fine; but with MAP_SHARED, the region is backed directly
                 by the file.  Since you can't change the length of a file
                 with mmap, there's no backing store for anything you write
                 past the end of the file.

                 This means that nothing you write past the end of the file
                 will be saved.  You can try it: create a file with some data,
                 mmap it, and write to a few bytes just past the end of the
                 file.  As long as you stay within the last page of the file,
                 your writes will succeed but they'll be silently discarded
                 when the page is written out to disk.

                 Unfortunately, writing past the end of a file is a common
                 programming error.  Although it would be hard for the kernel
                 to detect this in general, it's easy to check for writes
                 beyond the last page of the file -- so linux does, and sends
                 you SIGBUS when it happens.  --mconst
        \_ netscape.  Not minimal, though.  Sorry.
           \_ thus the inquiry
                \_ In netscape's case, usually kill(pid, SIGBUS) after it
                   detects a fatal error & wants the "talkback" error catching
                   & mailing software to run.
                   \_ the talkback software executes the same command
                      on itself just before doing anything useful.
        \_ how about kill -s SIGBUS <pid>?
           \_ funny. cough. funny. and it's "kill -BUS pid" on a lot of systems

12/4    Any horror stories out there about Covad or PacBell DSL
        service? I'm shopping around. -ulysses
        \_ my line at home is via firstworld/slip.net. They use
           covad. My line was installed on time and I've never
           had a problem with it. Its a little pricey but I have
           two static IPs.
                \_ I've been trying to get DSL since mid-April through
              \_ covad's still doing okay.
                   Earthlink; it still doesn't work, the shit is totally
                   fucked up somewhere.  And this is after numerous 1/2
                   hour phone calls to the pac bell provisioning department
                   and a few days off from work.  Needless to say, I'm
                   disappointed at Pac bell's lackadaisical efforts to
                   ensure to customers that the installation is complete
                   and fully operational in a prompt manner.
                   \_ j, stop bitching its your own damn fault for being
                      cheap.
           \_ Are covad and northpoint gonna go bankrupt?
            \_ northpoint got bought by verizon. They're not going to go
               bankrupt any time soon.  But northpoint may go incompetant
               under vericon's (mis)management.
                \_ bzzt.  Verizon canceled the deal and Northpoint is
           It's cheaper and the shared bandwidth issue is a red herring, IMHO.
                   suing.  In the meantime, Northpoint has been downgr!
                   to a sell.
        \_ When PacBell DSL works, it works great. When it doesn't, well,
           let's just say my non-techie sister knows more about DSL than
           some of their tech support. It's only pure luck that you'll end
           up with someone on the line who knows anything more than "Is your
           modem on?" or "Are your cables connected properly?" Oh, and this
           is after waiting at least half an hour on hold.
        \_ Consumer Reports says those they surveyed with Cable Modem had
           a better experience than those with DSL by a 2 to 1 margin.
           It's cheaper and the shared bandwidth issue is a red herring,
           IMHO.
           \_ Cable modem isn't available everywhere (SJ for example).
              Some of us are stuck with DSL. Though the new sprint
              wireless is showing some promise.
           \_ Sure, if you don't want a static IP or a service agreement that
              allows you to run whatever you want.  They literally scan your
              box and if they find ports open, "in the interest of security"
              they shut you down.  AT&T and @Home ... dunno about others.
                \_ Not.  I have @Home, and haven't got any problem with
                   being scanned, nor being shut down for having services
                   with open ports.  I have a static, too.
                   \_ my brother (in berkeley) hasn't had a problem either.
                      He's running a linux box as a nat/firewall/web server
                      (a Cobalt RaQ3) and @home hasn't asked him to shut
                      it down. He was running a Qube2 before that (for
                      almost a year) and had no issues with @home.
                      ----ranga
          \_ does not upstream on cable modems suck?
             \_ Local @Home is limited to 128kbps and they try to smack you
                if you run a server, but when it works (the frequency of
                which depends on which "node" you're at) it's greeeat.  If
                you can get the 2 months free, free installation, and have
                no contract, try it.

12/4    i will never eat chicken at mcdonalds again:
        http://www.kgw.com/kgwnews/nationworld_story.html?StoryID=9881

12/4    My GF won't speak to me after I told her about a dream I had.  I
        dreamed that I was Santa Claus and I was circle jerking with the
        elves.  We cummed on Rudolf at the end.  Is she being too tough?
        \_ Hi aspo
        \_ I dreamed I was being taken on a tour of a huge underground
           complex with machinery and caves and stuff that is actually
           http://amazon.com's headquarters.  It was being run by these weird
           creatures that live off geothermal energy, so they had these
           glowing fractal pattern fins.  In an underground lake, the
           creatures converged and fused together to form this godzilla-
           sized blue-skinned nude woman, with the http://amazon.com logo emblazoned
           on her brow.  Then I woke up.