Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2000:September:27 Wednesday <Tuesday, Thursday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
 
WIKI | FAQ | Tech FAQ
http://csua.com/feed/
2000/9/27-28 [Computer/Networking, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll] UID:19334 Activity:high
9/26    When my client, get's disconnected I get a message "reset by peer"
        Does it mean, csua reset's my session or, My ISP disconnect's me,
        from the session?
        \_ Why all the extraneous apostrophes? don't people even pretend
           to know grammar anymore?
           \_ 311T3 Hax0012 D0 ! N33D G12AMMA12 D00D
        \_ It means that someone tried a tcp hijack on your ssh session
           and the server broke the connection. Otherwise, soda rebooted.
                \_ Or you hit soda's 24 hour keepalive timeout and your
                   ISP's firewall isn't playing nicely.  (Or your ISP
                   session timed out & you reconnected with a new IP
                   address.)
                   \_ or soda crashed and rebooted.
        \_ It means your lost your connection.  Why do you care?
           \_ Well, just wondering which side is doing the reset since it
              happens quite frequently, if it's not from csua, then I may
              be able to do something on my end to fix this problem.
2000/9/27-28 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD, Computer/HW/Drives] UID:19335 Activity:high
9/26    Why is soda crashing so often these days? Do we need an upgrade?
        Perhaps FreeBSD 4.1.1 or something?
        \_ I believe that it is failing hardware.  I also think we need
           to upgrade.... not the OS but the hardware, though upgrading
           the OS at the same time as the hardware makes sense.  --PeterM
           \= What kind of hardware do you think we need? I'm
              willing to donate something ($s even). - Concerned Alum
                \_ they already have a mkVI standing by i thought
              \_ We could really use a hardware raid controller.  -mikeh
                 \= SCSI or IDE?
                    \_ UW SCSI, at least 2 channels -mikeh
                       \= Name a card. I'll see what I can do.
                          BTW, If I do donate, can my brother get an
                          BTW, If I donate, can my brother get an
                          account (he's a undergrad)?
                          \_ Please contact me in email.  Tell your brother
                             to fill out an application.  Right now, I don't
                             know who either of you are.  -mikeh
        \_ If we would just reboot it every 2 hours, it would not crash.
                \_ I didn't know soda ran on MS software.
        \_ The upgrade is in progress.  The new machine is almost ready.
           Please be patient.  -- rewt
2000/9/27 [Uncategorized] UID:19336 Activity:nil
9/26    Anyone have a URL for a site with a simple (HS level or below)
        explanation of simple optics and decent pictures. Haven't tried
        a search engine yet. THX.
        \_ Try one.  The motd ain't nobody's bitch. - motd G
2000/9/27-28 [Computer/SW/Security, Finance/Investment] UID:19337 Activity:nil
9/26    E*Trade security problem:
        http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2000/09/26/BU22755.DTL
2000/9/27-28 [Computer/HW/Laptop, Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:19338 Activity:high
9/26     If I have lots of $$ and I want to buy a good laptop for running
         both windows98/ME and Linux, what should I go for?
         \_ PowerBook
         \_ IBM Thinkpads are nice in this area. All the ones I've seen have
            great Linux support, are built like tanks, and have nice keyboards.
            I have a 240, and even the built in winmodem works (though it can
            make things unstable) The new T and X series look really nice.
            If I had lots of money, I'd grab an X series box. Yum. -ajani
        \_ I'm in a simliar position (well, not *too* much money)... nobody
           recommends Vaio's for this purpose?
           \_ Sony VAIO is good. I'm running Linux on three of them. --dim
                 \_ How do you rate them in general?  I'm thinking of buying
                    one, haven't heard much outside of ads.  -sax
              \_ Anyone know when the Transmeta VAIOs are coming out?
                 \_ ask jeffwong, he works there.
                 \_ Don't bother, transmeta's technology is a big yawn.
                    I can give more details why on request.  -nweaver
           \_ am running linux and win2k on a n505-ve is working fine, except
              the winmodem is a rockwell and won't work under linux - ibms
                have lucent winmodems which do work under linux. - paolo
         \_ Dell Inspirons run Linux well.  They're heavy, though.
                \_ Yes, but does anyone know how to disable that damn
                   BEEP?  (can't be done in the bios)
                   \_ Which Inspiron do you have?  The 7000 doesn't beep.
        \_ I am buying Stinkpad 600X and Vaio picturebooks (the Crusoe
           ones, just cause I am curious) for work.  Stinkpads are
           great, and I believe that IBM now officially supports
           Leenux on them.  -John
        \_ Any opinions on Dell Inspiron 3800 ? -eric
           \_ 2 hour battery life, 7 lbs., so-so screens, good Linux.
              The principal developer here ordered 8 a few months ago
              for general use.  You know they just came out with the 4000.
           \_ I recently got one and I like it.  The screen is ok, imho.
              Dual pointers is a nice touch.  Linux & FreeBSD work nicely
              (except for sound).   I got mine very cheap ($1350 for 600Mhz
              with minimum ram and hdd) -- there was weirdness in Dell
              order system.
2000/9/27-28 [Computer/Companies/Google] UID:19339 Activity:nil
9/26    Looking for Where's Waldo picture on the web. URL please.
        And no, it can't be found on Google.
        \_ i think what you want to say is "no I couldn't find it on google"
           \_ "no I couldn't find any on google"
        \_ I found one rather easily using Google:
           http://www.worldvillage.com/wv/school/images/scrnshot/waldo1.gif
2000/9/27-28 [Uncategorized] UID:19340 Activity:high
9/26    Is it just me, or it seems like Professors (and especially
        Professors) enjoy talking about the "good ol days when bytes and
        bits were THIS big and it's enough to get the job done" crap?
        \_ Whatever. When I was a kid we used to walk in 2 feet of snow
           to school uphills both ways.
           \_ Only 2 feet, what a wuss. I had to walk 10 miles uphill
              both ways in 6 ft of blizzard conditions just to go from
                                   \_ Playing Warcraft in the labs again?
                                      \_ I used computers to compute,
                                         not to play mindless games. Zork
                                         was new when I was old.
                                         was new when I was old.  And its
                                         Tiberian Sun not WarCraft.
                                         \_ It was a spelling flame.
              the classrooms to the labs.
                \_ Wow... you had schools?  Labs?  When I was a kid we used to
                   hear about kids that had the opportunity to walk to school
                   10 miles uphill both ways in the snow but never met any.
                   \_ I feel your pain.
        \_ people in every line of work do this.  i've seen old fisherman
           do exactly this on comercial fishing boats, and fishing is older
           than written history. "what are you whining about, kid? you think
           they always had refrigerated seawater on boats!?"
        \_ why would fishermen whine about the old days, when they hadn't
           yet caught all the fish?
           \_ And this is likely exacerbated by the fact that CS is a
              relatively young field.  A number of the Professors here today
              had a significant hand in shaping it.  They probably remember
              a time when it was possible to know EVERYTHING in the field.
              Wouldn't you miss that? -dans
              \_ Do you miss knowing something dans?  - dans' #1 fan
              \_ Quake 1 single player is a solved problem now.  Have you
                 seen Quake done Quickly?
        \_ Actually, Professors are mainly talking about making the BIG
           INTERNET BUX.
        \_ That's what happens when you get old and things change.
           \_ I'm starting to do that and I'm only 30.
              \_ I'm 30 and *not* doing that.  Try a new job.  Stay young.
2000/9/27-30 [Uncategorized] UID:19341 Activity:nil
09/** Yes, soda crashed.  Yes, it will crash again.  Yes we're working on it.
2000/9/27 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD, Computer/HW/Drives] UID:19342 Activity:nil 60%like:19344
09/27 If you have a spare (FreeBSD compatible) hardware raid controller,
      please consider donating it to MkVI.  -mikeh
2000/9/27-28 [Computer/HW/Laptop, Computer/Networking] UID:19343 Activity:high
9/26    Reminder; Out door computing facility TODAY 11:30 on Memorial Glade.
        (the lawn infront of the library).  If you would like to see WAV LAN
        installed in the nice grassy area, please just show up, eat lunch, and
        hang out, (and bring a laptop if you can.) -sofia
        \_ WaveLAN?
           \_ 802.11 wireless LAN hardware. Wow... Just wait until bluetooth
                                                                   \_ slow
              comes around...
                \_ Breezecom > bluetooth.  FHSS > DSSS.  -John
              \_ Bluetooth is going to be as toothless as a still born
                 babe.
              \_ Breezecom is slicker than snot dripping from Fuzzy's noze
                 in the Swiss Alps.
              \_ Breezecom will whip blewtewf like a cheeze omlette.
              \_ Breezecom is gonna sound like a huge vaccuum cleaner to the
                 makers of bluetooth.
              \_ Bluetooth: duck.
              \_ Breezecom - smart as a whip.
              \_ Yah, just try downloding Fuzzy's plan on each, you'll probably
                 get an overflow error on bluetooph.
2000/9/27-11/14 [Computer/HW/Drives] UID:19344 Activity:nil 60%like:19342
09/27 If you have a spare hardware raid controller (FreeBSD
      compatible, 2+ channels UW SCSI), please donate it to MkVI.  -mikeh
2000/9/27 [Computer/SW/Compilers] UID:19345 Activity:nil
9/26    What's a good alternative, Cliff Notes like substitute to Aho, Sethi,
        and Ullman's dry and *yawn* boring Compilers: Principles, Techniques,
        and Tools?                              -desperate failing junior
2000/9/27-28 [Computer/Networking] UID:19346 Activity:moderate
9/26    static IP dsl in fremont area?
        \= firstworld
        \_ firstworld
        \_ megapath; tech support is sluggish, but reliability, install time,
           and tech support fu is excellent
2000/9/27-28 [Computer/Companies/Ebay, Recreation/Travel] UID:19347 Activity:moderate
9/26    Used Priceline to name my price and got it. Then I found out that
        the flight did 3-4 different transfers before my destination. I
        ended up wasting )(#*)$(#$*(# 10-12 hours waiting at the airport
        at a mere discount of $XX. I am NEVER NEVER USING PRICELINE AGAIN.
        \_ caveat emptor
           \_ cogito ergo eres
              \_ Another one born every minute
        \_ when you name a price, there should be a setting that asks
        the greatest number of transfers you're willing to accept.
2000/9/27-28 [Computer/HW/CPU, Computer/Networking] UID:19348 Activity:very high
9/26    ARG!  I bought a modem that I thought would work with linux
        (The AOpen FM56-PM) and it DOESN'T.  Please recommend a 56K
        modem that works with linux.  Thanks.
        \_ D00D R U ST111 U51NG A M0D3M? U SH0U1D T12Y CA813 012 D51!
        \_ Um.. buy a friggin external modem?
           \_ You lack clue. Go get more clue.

          /- This thread cracks me up.  It's so funny reading shit about CPU
         /   speed when 99% of the people cares only about network bandwidth.
        /    How will USIII improve my p0rn d/l time?  Get a fucking clue.
        |    \_ DOn't worry your pretty little eloi head.  Us morlocks
        |       (1%) will keep things running.  Oh, I'd like fries
        |       with that, too, please.
                        \_ Stephenson sucks at non-fiction
                           \_ contrary to popular belief on Soda,
                              NEAL STEPHENSON DID NOT WRITE
                              "THE TIME MACHINE" which is where "eloi" and
                              "morlocks" comme from.  Go read it; it's
        |           you can use any old fucking CPU and disk because it
                              eTextified and less than 100 pages.
                              http://www.jyu.fi/~otto/finncon95/timem10.html
                              \_ He is referring to 'The command line' book
                              which did violence to Wells' invention.
                              Eloi rule the world, not Morlocks.  Look around
                              you, coder peon.
                                \_ That's what the Eloi want you to think.
        |     \_ Some people actually write the code that allows you to
        |        download your p012N you 311T3 Hax0012. They care about
        |        things like memory fetch latency and instruction
        |        execution. In terms that you can understand. If the
        |        311T3 p012N site is running on a USIII you can ask
        |        it to give you more files per second.
        |        \_ time for CPU to process URL requests: 2 us
        |           time for network to send p0rn mpegs:  1 hr
        |           time to enjoy porn:                   priceless
        |           Network bandwidth is priceless. For everything else
        |           you can use any old fucking CPU and dick because it
        |           doesn't really matter!
        |           \_ it takes a lot of CPU to keep 100 or 1000 Mb/s
        |              links full.
        |
2000/9/27-28 [Computer/HW/CPU] UID:19349 Activity:insanely high
9/26    Sun released USIII released today. It seems to kick major ass
        (of intel/amd/mot/dec) Anyone have a system yet?
        \_  You're deluded.  It doesn't beat alpha 21264 and only barely bests
            Intel.  It only excels in multiprocessing.  --PeterM
        \_  You're deluded.  It doesn't beat alpha 21264 and only barely
            bests Intel.  It only excels in multiprocessing.  --PeterM
        \_  I bet Sun does a better job of selling their crap than Compaq
                ever will.  Compaq still doesn't understand all the gems
                they have from that purchase they made a while ago.  Compaq
                weenies only understand NT and PC servers.
            \_ Intel kicks the ass of every processor we have benchmarked
               it against except for the new HP-PA chips. That does not
               include USIII, but it was so much faster for our (intensive
               number crunching) application than an USII 450 as to be
               laughable. USIII would have to be twice as fast or more to
               beat Intel, and these are only Intel 750's. --dim
                     MAYBE BECAUSE THEY CAN'T?
               \_ Sun is selling 900Mhz USIII's now.  SPECmarks
                  match a 1Ghz Intel on int and toast intel on FP.
                  \_ urlP
                  \_ I'll believe it when I see it. I don't trust SPEC
                     except as a very rough guide. So SUN's new processor
                     matches a 6 month old Intel chip, huh? That's supposed
                     to be impressive for the prices they charge? --dim
                     \_ 6 month old Intel chip?  There are about as many
                        1GHz PIIIs in circulation as USIIIs.
               \_ I've never seen intel kick any ass. MHz per MHz Intel
                  needs more than double to match PowerPC and Sparc.
                  \_ Duh!  So why don't they DOUBLE THE CLOCK SPEED to
                     what Intel can do and BEAT INTEL INTO THE DUST?
                     MAYBE BECAUSE THEY CAN'T?  Duh!  CPUs have to be
                     DESIGNED to clock fast!  Duh!  MHz is MEANINGLESS.
                     \_ Okay I should have said it this way, they need
                        more clock cycles to execute the same number of
                        instructions because while US/PPC can execute 4
                        int instr./cycle and 2 fp instr./cycle Intel can
                        only do 2 and 1 (I believe). Bascially CISC is
                        wasting your time by doing less in more time.
                        \_ But RISC takes multiple instructions
                           to do what CISC does in 1.  Comparing
                           instruction counts is as much as waste
                           of time as comparing Mhz.
                           \_ A RISC chip can introduce greater instruction
                              parallelism than a CISC chip can thus time
                              per instruction execution becomes important.
                        \_  Yeah, and they can't clock their complex (4/2)
                            RISC CPU fast enough to match Intel's relatively
                            simple CISC (2/1) in performance.  Why is that?
                            It is because they failed to design it to
                            clock fast.  Intel's is a superior implementation.
                            \_ No RISC is better. The only way that Intel can
                               keep CISC in the game is to keep ramping up the
                               speed. They can't improve performance in any
                               other way because of thier horrible design. Now,
                                \_
                                    You seem to think that ramping up the clock
                                    speed is trivial.  You are wrong.  The
                                    CPU has to be designed from the ground up
                                    to be highly clockable.
                                    The MORE WORK PER CLOCK TICK, the longer
                                    the logic stage, the less you can increase
                                    the clock!  It's a tradeoff.  Designing
                                    something to clock fast was a smart choice.
                                    A winning choice.  Intel designed
                                    in such a way as to achieve high clocks.
                                    Other vendors did NOT, or else you'd
                                    see 1GHz PA-8500 uber alles.  But the
                                    fact is, no one can clock a PA-8400
                                    at 1GHz precisely because it was never
                                    designed to go that fast.
                                    Only the 21264 is demonstrably "better" at
                                    int stuff, and only barely.  The PIII
                                    and the K7 with their CISC are holding
                                    up just fine.
                               RISC chips can get the same perf at lower speeds,
                               giving them room to expand perf in all aspects.
                               The high end RISC chips can run at similar speeds
                               as Intel's fastest but they can run thorugh more
                               instructions in the same time. The other problem
                               with x86 is the bad assumptions about uniform
                               memory fetch latencies. Intel has made some
                               pretty bad assumptions about how cache fetching
                               works and have spend a lot of time improving thier
                               pipeline, while the bottleneck is really the time
                               it takes to satisfy a memory fetch from either
                               l1,l2,mm,vm. It doesn't matter what your pipeline
                               is like if most of the time its empty.
                \_ what a stupid measurement.  That's like saying a particular
                   car is slow because it revs higher.  -tom
                \_ stop it Tom, you're making sense.  :)  -mtbb
                \_ Retail cost should be a factor too
        \_ I've had a SunBlade prototype on my desk since June (before it
           was a SunBlade) - what do you want to know?  -alan-
           \_ Is the binary compatibily still there? There some problems
              when moving to 64bit mode on USII (esp 200 MHz ones in the
              UE2) and does it still run the 32 bit Solaris kernel (I
              gather that 32bit kernel is faster than 64bit kernel).
              \_ Yep.  Complete binary compatibility (I have no idea
                 what problems you're referring to with the USII - it
                 was binary compatible as well.)   No 32-bit kernel
                 though, 64-bit only.  Which is faster depends on what
                 you're doing.  -alan-
                 \_ For server work loads (ie non-compuational, non-db)
                    doesn't the amount of time required to search for a
                    given memory page in the 64bit address space cause a
                    noticable slowdown? And the problem with USII was
                    something to do with main memory fetch sometimes
                    failing on sub 200 MHz chip when the 64bit kernel
                    was running.
                        \_ Not that much of a slowdown, and on the plus side,
                           all 64-bit code is compiled with full UltraSparc
                           optimizations, while most 32-bit code is not.
                        \_ The only problem I heard of with < 200 Mhz Ultras
                           was the one where a bad instruction that no compiler
                           or assembler would ever generate could stall the
                           processer.  That's a bug, not a compatibility
                           problem.  (And fortunately for Sun, the actual
                           instruction was never publically leaked, unlike
                           the Pentium F00F.)  -alan-
                    \_ Dont make old men run sprints or marathons
2017/09/22 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/22    
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2000:September:27 Wednesday <Tuesday, Thursday>