9/10    No, I don't like Bill Gates and WinBlows. However, I really need it
        cuz of the apps that run on it. The question I have is, is Win2K
        worth it over Win98? Please don't post 'format, get FreeBSD/Linux' Thx
        \_ will someone port cakewalk already?
        worth it over Win98? Please don't post 'format, get FreeBSD/Linux' Thx
        \_ the IT people where I work said that it is still too unstable and
           buggy to switch to(they won't support it.) thay said that it will
           be an improvement when it has been debugged, and that they will
           "let us know when it no longer sucks".
           \_ This is the traditional "Wait until the Service Pack answer".
              For mid- to large-size corporations this is true (Active
              Directory is hard to configure).  If you're small, the benefits
              from Win2K far outweigh consequences, compared to WinNT4.
        \_ Yes, if you're not paying for it.
           \_ I agree.
        \_ format.  Install FreeBSD/Linux.  Install VMware.  Run Win98.
        \_ clarification:
                Win2000 = new version of WinNT
                WinME = new version of Win98
           (where ME stands for Mellinium Edition)
           Why they switched their naming convention to have their "server"
           OS go from letters to numbers and desktop OS to go from numbers
           to letters is beyond me.
                \_ Quite simple - Win2000 was supposed to be the "unifying"
                   release for everyone to run.  Then they saw how completely
                   unusable it was for most home users and had to come up
                   with a new name for ME, which was supposed to be the last
                   "consumer" release, but they're now working on another
                   version for 2001, currently code-named "Whistler", and the
                   Great Unified OS dream has been put off several more years.
                        \_ not being able to track memory leaks in
                           Win98 drives me insane.
                           Win2k has stability and is easier to admin.
                           The only problem is with the lack of good
                           driver support.
                           \_ Not being able to track memory leaks in
                              WinNT4 drives my cube mate insane.  Muhahaha!

9/10    How do I setup a kill file for news?
        \_ Application dependent.
           \_ I'm using gnus and slrn
                \- you use gnus and are asking on the motd?
                   \_ also slrn

9/10    using: win2k  wanted: good firewall pkg.  recommendationsP
        good defind as something you have used, and are comfortable
        with and have the least amount of hatred for.
        \_ I recommend ipf, you need to install a helper environment
           in order to get it running, a little environment named
           OpenBSD!
                \_ Dork.  The person wants WinRoute.  --openbsd/win2k user
                   \_ Running a firewall using Lose2k or an MS OS
                      is like building a castle, but leaving the
                      drawbridge down, the portcullius up and the
                      doors open. There is no point. What he needs
                      is ipf, and he should be running it using
                      OpenBSD. For him, ipf is the app, and OpenBSD
                      is the lib. Yeah, installing the lib wipes
                      Lose2K, but that is a good thing.
                      \_ Paolo, shut the fuck up.
                         \_ I'm not Paolo, I'm #1 *BSD FAN!
                        \_ Hi.  I really did mean 2k.  I run
                           ipf on the other half of the machine
                           and no, it's not buff enough for vmware.
                        \_ Like if you ever used WinRoute or w2k you might
                           know what you're talking about.  OpenBSD isn't the
                           answer to every question unless your toolshed only
                           has a hammer.
                           \_ Lose2K isn't the answer to any question.
                              In fact if M$ is the answer to any question,
                              you are asking the wrong question.
                                \_ Some of us live and work in the real world
                                   where your religious point of view won't
                                   fly.  So what's the answer for the busdev
                                   and sales people who want powerpoint style
                                   presentations, excel style spreadsheets,
                                   and exchange style calendaring?  There isn't
              plug in. Needless to say, they don't use the openbsd side
                                   a better set of apps on the unix side for
                                   these sorts of things than MS has.  It's
                                   time to leave the church and try something
                                   secular.  -unix admin
        \_ You're apparently looking for something free, but numerous
           colleagues of mine (mostly unix-heavy) have liked Axent Raptor
           pretty well.  Of course, it pretty much rips out all the Wincrap
           and leaves the pretty interface.  Regarding IPF, is there any
           possibility you can put a dedicated OpenBSD/ipf box in front of
           the Windows machine?  Leaving a Windows box on an open net is
           a fairly risky proposition, especially since Win2k probably
           hasn't most of its security bugs exposed yet...  -John
           \_ rock on. thanks. this was the type of answer I was looking
              for.  This is a laptop.  It dual boots w/ 2k.  At work,
              it's jacked in behind an openBSD firewall; so no problem
              the issue is that this z505s is a presentation machine and
              the biz team likes to take it to various locales and
              plug in. Needless to say, they don't use the unix side
              of the machine.
                \_ What I was getting at though is that I don't know whether
                   you can really use Win2k as such under Raptor, since it
                   really claims to rip everything out, install its own "OS"
                   and leaves the Windows GUI.  If you're using the laptop
                   productively, I'd recommend looking for some sort of
                   hardening programs that close ports and kill services.
                   You may want a look at http://securityfocus.com to see what you
                   can do manually.  -John