Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2000:August:25 Friday <Thursday, Saturday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2000/8/25-27 [Computer/Networking] UID:19092 Activity:high 50%like:18121 75%like:19090 56%like:19144
8/24    Jobs at -- sw engineers, QA, release engineers. Check out
        /usr/local/csua/pub/jobs/ for more info.
        \_ wap sucks.
           \_ yermom sucks.
        \_ Didn't their stock tank and stay tanked since March?
           \_ It's gone up 20 points from 2 weeks ago.  They're merging
              with -- analysts predict it'll be at 135+ by the
              end of the year and rate it a "strong buy" -- all this is on
                \_ Up 20 means its still down dozens more from spring.
           \_ i think you're not smart if you don't bet on WAP. -ali
                \_ was going down, but then SPYG went and sold
                   out to piece-of-shit OPTV, removing's big
                   (and better) competition.  -tom
             \_ most wireless industry analysts agree that WAP is lame and
                going to be short-lived (< 1 year).  the clients suck and
                are all slightly different bugs.  "We recommend you do your
                site 4 different ways to make it look good on different WAP
                \_ what you know as wap was never intended to be long-
                   lived. wap is evolving quickly and hopefully won't
                   suck as much as it does today.
                   \_ WAP is doomed, period.  It was designed to run pared-
                      down http traffic over wireless protocols not capable
                      of handling a lot of bandwidth (GSM, etc.)  When UMTS
                      gets rolling, you'll see pretty hardcore handheld
                      mobile wireless internet traffic way beyond WAP.  -John
                \_ gee, I wonder if _that's_ why the merger with
                   is such a big deal!  duh!  with the merger,'s
                   future path just opened wider.
             \_ WTF do these so called 'analysts' know?  If they were so
                damned smart, why are they still working?
                \_ didn't I see that on a billboard for etrade?
                        \_ Probably.  It's a line older than the people who
                           founded etrade however.  The line even predates
                           Al Gore's founding the internet in his youth.
        \_ Check stock chart from January to today.
           \_ are we goign to have this conversation _again_?  we just deleted
              the whole thread about all this.
                \_ What thread?  You should check the value of *any* company
                   you're thinking of joining.  What's the big deal with that?
           \_ -- lookup phcm.
2000/8/25-26 [Health/Sleeping] UID:19093 Activity:low 63%like:19003
8/24    Twin bed matress and box spring for sale. $5.00 --daveh
        \_ isn't that the sort of thing you just give away and are thankful
           for someone taking off your hands?  Cheap bastard.
           \_ I think the idea is if you charge for it people will
              will think it's a nice one.
                \_ You're right, he offered this thing for free
                   awhile ago.
                        \_ no one wants daveh's skanky mattress
                         \_ no one wants daveh's skanky dick
2000/8/25 [Recreation/Dating] UID:19094 Activity:nil
8/24    I was having sex with my boyfriend and as I was being clitorally
        stimulated to climax, I saw images like being on a ship in the middle
        of a storm with a yellow rainjacket on and feeling like my arms
        and hands were in watermelon bubblicious bubbglecum (that later
        changed to grape).  We were completely sober.  Would taking
        hallucinogens before a similar sex experience heighten the effect?
        \_ i don't think Paddington Bear takes hallucinogens.
        \_ No.  Every drug that messes with your brain (all of them) are
           either proven or almost proven to decrease sexual pleasure, ability
           to climax, etc.  This is definitely one time drugs can't improve
           on nature, unless you're looking for a better light show instead
           of better sex.  If you want a good light show, try the planetarium
           instead of your boyfriend.
                \_ Viagra+LSD!
                \_ ever tried coke?
2000/8/25 [Computer/SW/Languages/Python] UID:19095 Activity:nil
8/25    What is the best site for a primer on python?
2000/8/25-26 [Reference/Tax] UID:19096 Activity:high
8/24    I'm buying a house in Silicon Valley. Is it a better idea to sell
        my ESPP stock or my options for my down payment? Thanks.
        \_ YOU ARE AN IDIOT! BUY HIGH???
        \_ Stock options.  Stock options have expiration dates.
        \_ The real answer is depends. Your options might expire, but
           if you sell your options in a same day sale, the acutal
           amount of money you are going to get is ~ 40% (Bill C needs
                                                     \_ ~ 58%
                                                        \_ Okay, I agree
                               that this number depends on the withholding
                               you specify at the time of the sale, but if
                               you specify any less than 32% you are going
                               to get shafted on 15 April. Read the fine
                               print and talk to a tax attorney, in some
                               cases the tax penalty starts on the day of
                               the sale. So, its like 32% tax + option
                               price + 7% state + 1% medicare + 1.5% SSI.
                               Maybe adding the option price isn't exactly
                               right, since you have to pay that anyway.
           is cut). If you make a lot of profit (greater than $250K) you
           may get even less because of AMT. Note that this is for non-qual
                                        \_ wrong
           options (the kind that you get if you join a company after it
                        \_ wrong
           is public). For ISO options (the kind you should get if you join
           a pre-ipo company) the % Bill C gets is a little differnet and
                \_ wrong
           you may walk away with as much as 60% - 70% even on a same day
           sale. If you decided to buy your non-qual options and hold them
           after 1 yr you can walk away with up 75%. The story of ESPP shares
                \_ Please don't use Bill C.  He doesn't get taxes you paid.
                   Otherwise, he'd be richer than Bill G.  Uncle S is the
                   \_ He's the DGLF that raised the tax rates and keeps
                      vetoing any tax relief. Bill C spends my money on
                      worthless crap like welfare and environmental reg.
                      when I would rather see it used for things like
                      ICBM's, Aircraft Carriers, Battle Ships, Space
                      Based Weapons Platforms, Mars landers etc.
                   person getting your taxes.
                   \_ All of you need to talk to Monica L.
           is different since you own them. All you have to do is wait until
           they have been held for more than 1 year and you just pay 20% of
           the profit to Bill C.
           \_ This person is wrong on several important points. Talk to a
              tax accountant; why the hell are you asking this here? And to
              this poster: stop giving advice --aaron
                \_ aaron, would you rather have a house or an Asian Chick?
                        \_ are they all out of chics? --aaron
2000/8/25 [Uncategorized] UID:19097 Activity:nil
8/25    Is there a way to find out which ISP co-locate a particular domain name?
2000/8/25-27 [Reference/BayArea, Reference/RealEstate] UID:19098 Activity:very high
8/25    Any place in the bay area where I can find a house < $300K?  Don't
        tell me East Palo Alto.  I'll settle for townhouse, but not condo.
                \_ just come heavily armed with a shotgun and a kevlar vest..
                        \_ Power armor.  Have it developed.
        \_ don't hold your breath.  what we need right now is a massive
                \_ I actually looking.  It's true.
           10.0 earthquake to physically destroy most of the computer
           industry around here before prices go down...just enough
           destruction to drive a large part, but not all, of the tech
           companies out.   *sigh*
                - (racially insensitive, mood swings)
        \_ You think you can get a house in E Palo for under $300k?  Don't
           be stupid.  They're not giving them away in EPA anymore.
           \_ Yeah, nowhere can you get a perfect view of 35mm shells flying
              by your window at 2am in the morning.
                \_ I was actually looking.  It's true.
                \_ 35mm? Either you are trying to shoot down aircraft, or are
                   watching big-screen films or have robots in teh streets.
        \_ You won't find a house of under $300K in the bay area.
        \_ a friend of mine bought a 2br 1ba with bay view and backyard,
           in East Oakland a couple months ago for $250Kish.  It's not in
           an elite neighborhood, but it's on the "good side" of High Street
           by the 580.  It's possible, you just have to compromise.  Another
           friend of mine bought a 3br 2ba house for $330K in Clayton (by
           Concord/Walnut Creek -- and yah, it is one of those 70s style homes
           with frightful orange and green walls inside, but she figures she
           can easily fix that) two weeks ago, so my guess is that there
           are 2br 1ba houses for less than $330K out that aways, too. --chris
           \_ The compromise being that you fear for your life and your wife's
              well being at all hours, but gee the house was such a bargain.
        \_ There are still houses ~ 300K in Newark/Union City/Hayward
           (~ 500k new) Other places you might want to look are milpitas
           (alviso), downtown (getto) sunnyvale, e sj. Town homes in 300k
           are still available in the w sj & cupertino area, but these are
           really small (~ 900 sqft).
        \_ Well, if you consider Pittsburg still in the Bay Area, my gf's
           sister bought a 2-story 6-bdrm house out there for $350k.
           \_ I don't.  Might as well live in Texas.
           \_ Pittsburgh is in Pennsylvania. That's not Bay Area.
                \_ pittsburgh, california, you fucking dweeb
                        \_ Pittsburg, CA, versus PittsburgH, PA
        \_ back in november I saw a house go for 150K in oakland on
           MLK in between ashby bart and and childrens hospital.  Right next
           to bart tracks.
           \_ There are a lot of houses in flatland north Oakland (not
              Rockridge) that go for less than $300k.  Of course, a trivial
              search on would have told you that.  -tom
              \_ or
                                 Mark my words: a new 2bd/2.5bath townhome
              \_ yeah and spend $60K just to make it reasonably livable.
                 when you could spend a little more on a new home in Newark
                 and have that house appreciate MUCH faster. And a new home
                 wont suck up all your time to get it fixed.
                        \_ When I moved into my place, we redid the foundation,
                           electrical, plumbing, heating, and floors, and
                           it cost, in total, about $30K.  And it's way the
                                 places to buy(i work in Palo Alto), unless
                                 you have a well-paying job in SF or Contra
                                 Costa, then you can buy in North
                                 Oakland/Rockridge for cheap and stay
                                 near some nightlife/culture. But if youre
                                 buying a house, you probably cant afford
                                 to go out anyways,heh.
                           hell nicer than anything you can buy in Newark.
                           \_ not now.
                           \_ And Oakland sucks and it'll never appreciate.
                              I think you made the wrong choice.
                              \_ actually oakland will appreciate, but NOWHERE
                                 near as fast as Newark will the next 2 years.
                                 Mark my words: a NEW 2bd/2.5bath townhome
                                 in Newark purchased today will appreciate
                                 nearly $100K in the next 12-18 months.
                                 I'm looking at that area ASAP, but also
                                 considering an older townhome/house in
                                 S'vale, just to keep my commute sane.
                                 I am screwing myself by generating
                                 competing buyers, but really those are the
                                 places to buy(esp if u work in Palo Alto
                                 like me), unless you have a well-paying
                 Would you like to pay for a detailed study? or is
                 complaining less expensive? THINK about how the govt
                 tracks this data and you'll see.
                                 job in SF or WC, then you can buy
                                 in North Oakland/Rockridge for cheap and
                                 stay near some nightlife/culture. But if
                                 youre buying a house, you probably cant
                                 afford to go out anyways,heh.
                                \_ ooh yeah, Oakland sucks, it's so horrible
                                   to have a dozen real restaurants, a
                                   good grocery store and a movie theatre
                                   within 3 blocks of my place.  It would
                                   be so much better if I had to drive 5
                                   minutes to get to the Taco Bell/Burger King/
                                   Applebee's strip.  Not to mention an
                                   hour drive to get anywhere with any kind
                                   of nightlife or culture.  As for
                                   appreciation, I bought it for $265K,
                                   similar houses in the neighberhood are going
                                   over $400K, 1.5 years later.  -tom
                                   \_ You have a funny idea of 'good'.  If I
                                      want what Berkeley, SF, or anywhere else
                                      has to offer, I can drive to the slums,
                                      and then *go home*.  I don't have to
                                      *live* in that shit.  And how often do
                                      you _really_ enjoy that really great
                                      Oakland nightlife chill'n' on da korna
                                      wit da homeez?  Asking price != selling.
                                      People in slums always talk about how
                                      great the culture is.  They have nothing
                                      else to talk about.  Check the crime rate
                                      and let us know.
                                        \_ gee, racist trolls from reiffin.
                                           how original.  -tom
                                           \_ As usual, "whatever you say tom."
                                              I've asked you before to just
                                              add my standard reply to your
                                              garbage for me to save me the
                                              effort.  Is it that hard?  I'm
                                              not a racist but if it makes you
                                              feel better to think so, that's
                                              ok with me.  Whatever.  -reiffin
                                                \_ how about, we'll just
                                                   imagine your replies and
                                                   you can just go away.  -tom
                                                   \_ "We" who?  You speak for
                                                      all motd readers?  Or is
                                                      that the "royal we"?  The
                                                      truth is I'll never go
                                                      away as long as you're
                                                      around.  You're so easy,
                                                      I can't help but bait
                                                      you.  You take yourself
                                                      so seriously when no one
                                                      else does.  -reiffin
                                   \_ Purchased a new home in SJ for $530K
                                      10 months ago. Now similar homes
                                      in the area sell for nearly $900K. And
                                      the new homes in area with larger lots
                                      are being offered at $1.1million (as
                                      a *starting* bid). Problem w/ Oaktown
                                      is that the good parts are built up.
                                      But SJ and UC/NWK have *new* homes
                                      being built, which are of course more
                                      expensive, but drive up the price
                                      of neighboring homes a lot more than
                                      usual. LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION!
                                      And all my neighbors drive lexus,
                                      porsche, bmw, mbz and there's 1 ferrari
                                        \_ uh, when you add supply, the
                                           price goes down (relatively).  -tom
                                           \_ tend to agree with tom on this
                                              thread.  i wouldn't call his
                                              decision to buy a house in
                                              oakland stupid.  a friend of mine
                                              bought in oakland for $100K 2
                                              years ago, and the house is now
                                              worth $300K.  Yah, he had to fix
                                              it up, but he likes everything
                                              he put in, instead of having to
                                              put up with someone else's decor.
                                              plus, I don't particularly care

                                              for a permanent living situation
                                              in Newark/SouthBay. --chris
                                                 \_ i think you all would
                                                    both change your
                                                    mind if you were the
                                                    one who got mugged
                                                    or even killed in the
                                                    area.  not the
                                                    preferable place to be.
                                                    not to be racist either,
                                                    but those things happen,
                                                    and with greater freq.
                                                    \_ Believing in crime
                                                       statistics isn't racism.
                                           \_ price should go down but they
                                              do not, because the new
                                              prices for neighboring lots
                                              go up, while supply still
                                              strips demand (until the stock
                                              market crashes that is).
                                              If someone wants to live in
                                              the same area, they HAVE to pay
                                              similar prices. You do not
                                              understand BA RE very well.
                                              It more complicated than Econ 1
                                              The homes are not worth that
                                              amount of money, but that's
                                              the market, and people have/had
                                              "free" money to toss around
                                              so what do they care? Yes, BA
                                              market is all topsy-turvy. And
                                              Oakland simply has a bad rep
                                              so it can never grow as fast.
                                              Even though it's the best
                                              place to live for many reasons.
                                              Sigh, I lived in Rockridge for
                                              5+ years and would still be
                                              SJ & it's too hot and stuffy.
                                              there if the commute was
                                              reasonable. The water sucks in
                                              SJ. Weather too hot and stuffy.
                                              Gasoline is 20 cents higher.
                                              BIKE is near useless.
                                              No cool movies. But they
                                              do have fewer bums and a Fry's
           \_ You want these numbers by city, not by county.  Some of these
              counties are a mix of very nice cities and shitty slums.  County
              numbers are misleading.
              \_ Breakdown by city would be misleading too. i.e. oakland.
                 \_ That's true.  A lot of these cities are large and have
                    very varying areas and prices.  The county numbers are
                    completely worthless, however.  Cities numbers still
                    have _some_ value.
                    \_ Gee, County numbers have _some_ value too. The only
                       thing that is worthless is your all-or-nothing attitude.
                       Anyways, I was trying to help answer the poster's Q.
                        \_ Your call.  I don't pay attention to misleading
                           numbers that clump *huge* areas together under a
                           single heading.  You can if you'd like.
                           \_ You cannot find the numbers.
                                MEDIAN PRICE
           County          July '99   July '00  Pct. chg.
           Alameda         $278,000   $340,000    22.3%
           Contra Costa    $250,000   $269,000     7.6%
           Marin           $438,000   $550,000    25.6%
           Napa            $199,000   $269,000    35.2%
           San Francisco   $375,000   $470,000    25.3%
           San Mateo       $425,000   $503,000    18.4%
           Santa Clara     $390,000   $483,000    23.8%
           Solano          $162,000   $195,000    20.4%
           Sonoma          $249,000   $290,000    16.5%
           Source: DataQuick Information Systems
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2000:August:25 Friday <Thursday, Saturday>