Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2000:August:10 Thursday <Wednesday, Friday>
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2000/8/10 [Computer/SW/Security] UID:18945 Activity:moderate
8/9     I just installed openSSH --with-tcp-wrappers on my Redhat 6.2 box and
        outgoing functonality works great but when i try to connect using eith
        ssh1 or 2 i save a key but then "password authentication fails."
        I am quite certain i am using the right username/password combo.
        What could be going wrong?  I can still telnet in, there is nothing
        in the hosts.allow/deny files that could be causing this.
        \_ ssh -v
          \_ Read the FAQ on OpenSSH.  You need to modify pam.conf or
             something like that to get it to work.  --PeterM
                \_ not pam.conf, /etc/pam.d/sshd, look in ~peterm/sshd
        \_ You need to instal openbsd where it "just works".
           \_ or freebsd 4.x, or debian linux (apt-get install ssh)
2000/8/10 [Computer/HW/CPU] UID:18946 Activity:moderate
8/9     How is the load average related to the %cpu utilization? I have observ
        on my machine a high load average despite low cpu utilization.
        \_ load avg is a decayed avg of the number of runnable processes.
           %cpu utilization is the fraction of busy time (* 100).  you can
           have a load of 1 and a %cpu of 100 if the load stays at 1 long
           enough.  the reverse is less likely.  it means that you had a real
           large number of procs become runnable for a short period of time.
           -dpetrou
           \_ What this sounds like to me is that the load average is based
              on the number of runnable procs in priority que the scheduler
              uses. The deeper the priority que the higher the load average,
              right?
                \_ Yes.  Also note that load avg on an SMP machine is different
                   than a single cpu.  A quad cpu machine with a load of X has
                   4x as many jobs queued as a single cpu box with load X.
2000/8/10 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:18947 Activity:nil
8/9     Why the hell does the motd censor rip out every bit of humor from
        the motd? I suppose I shouldn't be surprised, cause that's why
        censors cense (hehe). I'm incensed!!
2000/8/10 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:18948 Activity:very high
8/9     What's a good place to buy a SMP x86 box to run either FreeBSD or
        Linux?
        \_ I looked at these people, and they weren't _too_ overpriced, but
           I ended up building it myself:
           I ended up building it myself using basically the same HW:
           <DEAD>freebsd.swt.com/bsd_dual.html<DEAD>
           --dbushong
           \_ Seems kind of pricey. I went to fry's today and a dual mb
              was $150, the two procs were $160 each, 128 mb ram was
              $100 and the case was $100, total $670. (I have the
              drives and cdrom). I was looking for some place that sells
              a pre-built one for approx. $800-$900. Used is okay for
              me (dual 300 PIIs or alternatives).
              \_ Well, I bought all the parts at Central and City-Com (better
                 prices) and the machine totalled ~ $5300, for:
                 2x PIII733 flip chip, SuperMicro 370DL3 MB, 512MB ECC PC133
                 Registered DIMM, 4x IBM 10k rpm 36GB drives, Ecrix VXA-1
                 internal tape drive, case, cdrom, floppy, fans, etc.
                 Roughly the same thing (but with Cheetahs instead of
                 IBM drives) was about $8k from SWT.  This is less
                 of a markup than many places.  Technically you can buy
                 SMP linux boxen from Dell these days.  --dbushong
                        \_ don't buy from Dell.  If you buy a "Linux box"
                           from Dell they don't ship you so much as a boot
                           floppy, and all the driver/management software
                           they ship runs only under Windows.  Plus their
                           support sucks sucks sucks.  Go VA Linux.  -tom
                           \_ I can't go VA Linux as I work for a competitor.
                              We just don't make SMP boxes yet (our price
                              point is much lower than VA).
                              \_ how about a name, so I can buy from you?
                                 \_ We don't really make desktops, though
                                    you could put a video card in one of
                                    our boxes. http://www.cobalt.com
                 \_ That's a pretty stacked machine. I'm just looking
                    for a reasonable performance/prcie SMP box to replace
                    a Sun Ultra 2 (2 200 MHz UltraSparcII's).
        \_ Why waste a good SMP box on a bad SMP OS like Linux?
                \_ As if FreeBSD was any better for SMP boxes.
              \_ I said either FreeBSD or Linux. I haven't made up
                 my mind yet. I'm more familiar with Linux (running it
                 since 1996), but I agree the kernel level locking is
                 pretty bad. I've heard that FreeBSD is better or
                 possibly even Solaris x86.
                 \_ I believe FreeBSD still does kernel level locking too,
                    but I certainly have liked the performance better on
                    our SMP FreeBSD box than on our Linux box running the
                    latest kernel.  I swear when the Linux box gets one big
                    java program that's not even sucking all the memory it
                    just dies.  --dbushong
           \_ because it's there
                 \_I've said it before, i'll say it agin(I was deleted before)
                     Solaris x86 sucks, don't do it.
                     \_ Yes, I heard several people from Sun say that too.
                        Are you from Sun too?
                         \_ I am not, but I have also been told by a guy from
                            Sun that it was never really a priority so it just
                            go thrown together.  Also the comparisons i posted
                            earlier (the only part of my post not deleted)
                            paint a pretty clear picture.
                            \_ What comparisons?
                            \_ Until recently, Sun's x86 priorities were aimed
                               at SMP servers, since that's what they had
                               contracts from OEM's like NCR for.  This is why
                               video drivers for x86 were not a priority.  This
                               is changing due to the popularity of the "free"
                               Solaris deal.
                               \_ So Solaris x86 on a dual PII/PIII box would
                                  be better than either FreeBSD or Linux?
                                        \_ Depends on what you want to do with
                                           it & what you need to run on it.
                                           \_ Translation: yes, for just
                                              about everything, solaris x86
                                              will be better MP, IF it is
                                              happy with the hardware.
                                           \_ Compiler to build some c code,
                                              apache/perl for cgi, javac for
                                              java code and X.
           \_ Even though he looks small, Pikachu is the best pokemon.
              I don't care what you think!
              \_ Pikachu is the dark lord and master of pokemon.
                 \_ B-but... but he's so cute! I just wanna hug him.
                    \_ Pi-ka-CHU!!
2000/8/10-11 [Computer/SW/OS/OsX] UID:18949 Activity:very high
8/9     What would be a nice and affordable computer system for mainly
        doing digital photography for home use?  Any URL will be appreciated.
        \_ iMac http://www.apple.com
        \_ the imac screen size is unacceptable for photoshop/gimp work.
        \_ macs rule!
           \_ Having been a long time Mac owner (got my SE in 1987 and have
              owned +8 mac since) I find that Macs far from rule. I like them
              as they are acceptible machines for certain tasks such as word
              processing, web browsing, telnet/ssh, terminal emulation and
              mp3 playing. I would venture that windows (all flavors) is
              useful for the about the same + perhaps gaming (if you want
              to waste your time) except that windows is a much less user
              friendly environment that hurts your procductivity rather than
              friendly environment that hurts your productivity rather than
              helps it. For the use the poster specified, digital photography
              at home, a mac is ideal as it comes completely equipped with all
              the features you would need for this task. If you doing any real
              work, for heavens sake get yourself a real computer or at least
              run Linux/*BSD on your PC/Mac.
              \_ The windows gui has nothing to do with productivity.  He'll
                 be spending his time in an app.  And what *nix app is
                 available that will do all the digital photo features as well
                 as a mac/windows box without spending professional level
                 prices?  Time to RIDE BIKE!
          \_ a real computer being a sun or sgi workstation....?  *sigh*
              \_ if you're doing anything creative, like drawing or playing
                 with photoshop, or editing movies, then you really, really
                 NEED a mac.  All the software handling these things runs at
                 least twice as fast on the mac and crashes (a little) less
                 often than on windows.  Try the same version of Photoshop on
                 both a Mac and a PC and you'll see what I mean.
                 \_ Sorry I was thinking about coding/number crunching.
                    You are right, a Mac is still the best at graphics and
                    publishing. In fact my publishers take the word docs that
                    I send them for my books and convert them into frame or
                    pagemaker on a mac in order to proof the layouts. They
                    only used Word because its easy for the editors to read
                    from a pc.
        \_ Though I am just getting into it, I plan to have a "digital"
           streach of the imagination. Its a decent program but photoshop
           darkroom instead the traditional ones.  I still own a mac but
           I am afraid that with 603e processor it will not be good enough,
           and I don't have enough money to burn.  Is GIMP really a viable
                 might be able to sell it and buy a refurb imac or b&w g3
                 though. I'm looking at a $899 b&w (http://www.smalldog.com
                 You might be able to get $300 to $400 for your pb.
           replacement for photoshop for this purpose?
           \_ Get a G3 upgrade its ~ $200 and will increase your performance
              several fold. You can even run LinuxPPC with GIMP if you so
              desire. GIMP is not a good alternative to photoshop by any
              strech of the imagination. Its a decent program but photoshop
              its not.
              \_ Thanks for the advice.  However, I have a Powerbook 3400.
                 \_ Sorry. I don't think that you can upgrade a 3400. You
                    might be able to sell it and buy a refurb imac or b&w
                    g3 though. I'm looking at a $899 b&w (http://www.smalldog.com
                    You might be able to get $300 to $400 for your pb so it
                    wouldn't be too much more and it would be well equiped
                    to handle digital photography as compared to a PC.
                 \_ I also would not recommend running LinuxPPC on a pb
                    3400 or any machine with a 603e. The 603e is a really
                    slow processor.
                 \_ An alternative to upgrading to a new mac is to get a
                    used mac such as a 120 MHz 7600 or a 100 MHz 7500 and
                    buy a G3 upgrade card for it. The 7600 might be about
                    $300 to $400 with the 7500 being about $200 to $300.
                    These are PCI boxes so you can get a good video card
                    (voodoo 3), a USB/FireWire card, and a 100MB ethernet
                    which makes it as powerful as most g3's.  You'll save
                    a couple of hundred dollars over a refurb new mac. If
                    you do get an older mac, make sure you don't get a
                    [89][56]00, their mb/case design makes them hard to
                    upgrade.  The 7[56]00 has a really nice mb/case that's
                    easy to access and upgrade.
              \_  anybody here employed in the graphic design/photography
                  industry or know anyone in it?  How do they/you like
                  it?
2000/8/10-11 [Computer/SW/OS/Solaris] UID:18950 Activity:moderate
8/10    Need info on performance on cross shared library calls vs. single
        library / static calls. This is for Solaris. Thanks.
        \_ http://docs.sun.com, Linkers & Libraries Guide
                \_ still can't find it :<
                   \_ your search fu is *really* weak:
http://docs.sun.com/ab2/coll.45.10/LLM/@Ab2TocView?Ab2Lang=C&Ab2Enc=iso-8859-1
2000/8/10 [Recreation/Humor] UID:18951 Activity:high
8/9     Say that a-teen video is pretty funny.  Makes me want to go on a
        Hughes-a-thon.
        \_ my, what a multi cultural lineup.  Looks like the rainbow coalition
           on Nickelodeon
        \_ There should be a law against "introducing the music of ABBA
           to a whole new generation".
2000/8/10 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll/TJB] UID:18952 Activity:nil
8/10    Join the Committee To Activate tjb By Any Means Necessary! - tpc
2000/8/10-11 [Computer/Networking] UID:18953 Activity:high
8/10    Ordering DSL for new place on shattuck + vine.  Is there any way I
        can avoid shitty pacbell dsl?
        \_ DNAI
        \_ Get FirstWorld, the do covad not pacbell.
           \_ you  stil have to go through pacbell copper
        \_ What's this about Sprint ION?  It's $120-160 and you get
           four phone lines.  Do they drag in some wire for you?
           \_ not available in this area, according to  their website.
2000/8/10-11 [Consumer/Camera] UID:18954 Activity:high
8/10    How does APS film compare with regular film? (quality and things
        like that)
        \_ Same emulsion.  Smaller negative for same size print.  You do math.
        \_ http://www.photo.net/photo/aps
        \_ APS is good for ordinary things like vacations photos, but not
           for professional stuff. I like my APS camera, but I take ~ 4
           photos a year.
        \_ More expensive to buy & develop film, lots of kewl features
           such as wide-angle shots, I think the negative strips don't
           work with most (any?) photo negative scanners if that's what
           you want to do.  -John
           \_ APS wide-angle shots are not real panorama shots.  All the
              camera does is to cover up the top and bottom portions of the
              negative.  You can achieve the same effect by taking a picture
              with the APS "normal" format or a 35mm format, and then grab
              a pair of scissors and cut away the top and bottom portions of
              the print.  About scanners, I have a Minolta Dimage Scan Dual
              which lets me buy an APS adapter for ~$115 if I want.  I think
              some scannes have built-in APS capabilities.  (BTW the driver
              that comes with the Scan Dual sucks big time.  I switched to a
              3rd party driver and I got *much* better image quality.)  -- yuen
                \- APS was a sleazy money grab by Kodak. If you arent a serious
                photographer and dont have a large investment in hardware, get
                a digital camera. --psb
2000/8/10 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll/TJB] UID:18955 Activity:nil
8/10    motd poll (or troll): do you favor giving tjb a soda account just to
        watch him wall and post on the motd?
        yes, we need some entertainment!        2
        yes, we need his wisdom!                1
        no, we don't need his shit!             0
        no, stop wasting soda's resources       1
        \_ Who is tjb, and why should I care?
        \_ fucking stop already
2000/8/10-11 [Computer/HW/Drives] UID:18956 Activity:moderate
8/10    Are there are strong competitors to Network Appliance for NAS?
        Auspex was the only competitor last I looked 3 years ago. Who
        else is worth looking at? --dim
        \_ Sun, EMC, & Compaq are trying to break into the NAS market, but
           are just getting started.
        \_ Seagate and Quantum both have NAS like offerings, as does
           Cobalt.
                \_ Seagate & Quantum are much smaller-scale devices - usually
                   single disk sizes, not terabytes like the big boys mentioned
                   above.
                   \_ The seagate is 2 disk/box and several of them can be
                      clustered together to appear as a single network disk
                      of larger size. The largest storage on one box is like
                      120 GB (2 60's), though they are trying to get it up to
                      200 GB (2 100's).
                        \_ 200 gb is still peanuts and clusters of anything are
                           always a pain in the ass to maintain.
        \_http://www.nishansystems.com
2000/8/10-11 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:18957 Activity:moderate
8/10    Related question to the SMP one below. Where can I get a used
        SMP box (PII 300 class) to run linux/freebsd? I tried E-Bay
        but didn't see anything in that class. If anyone has one to
        sell, or knows someone looking to upgrade, I'm interested.
        ----ranga
        \_ I think mikeh has a 2xP133 ;)
           \_ How does it run under linux/freebsd? Any idea how
              much he wants for it?
              \_ I know he runs FreeBSD 4.x on it. Mail him and ask him.
                 --dbushong
2000/8/10-11 [Computer/SW/Languages/Web] UID:18958 Activity:moderate
8/10    Does it really make sense that JSP / HTML / web weenies get paid
        more than core developers? It just doesn't make sense.
        \_ They usually don't.  If they do, you have every right to
           walk down to your HR/middle-manager's office and smack them
           around.  What gives you the right?  Tell them the soda users
           told you to do it.
           \_ Do you mean "they don't really make sense" or "they don't get
              paid more"?
              \_ What do you mean by "Do you mean...?" Are you talking
                 dollars or sense?
        \_ The job market gives you that right.  Polish resume and walk.  You
           work for stupid people.  If you stay then _they_ aren't the stupid
           ones....
2000/8/10 [Recreation/Travel] UID:18959 Activity:nil
8/10    http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/96sep/kunstler/kunstler.htm
2017/09/22 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/22    
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2000:August:10 Thursday <Wednesday, Friday>