Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2000:August:09 Wednesday <Tuesday, Thursday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2000/8/9-10 [Computer/SW/Languages/C_Cplusplus, Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:18929 Activity:high
8/8     How well do UCB EECS and CS newgrads know C/C++? (in general)
        \_ If it makes you feel any better, Stanford undergrads start out
           take 3 quarters of "Introductory Programming" in C instead of
        \_ on average, better than other schools' new grads, with a
           lot more upside
        \_ That's right.  They stopped teaching C/C++ in 61B in favor
           of Java right?  So you have to learn C/C++ somewhere else
           or in 61C or the upper division classes.
        \_ Well, they know VB and VC++. They know java 1.1 and some swing.
           they should know ansi C.  That's it.
           \_ If you don't know what you're talking about, shut the fuck
              up. No one here teaches V-anything except for the occasional
              160/169 lab group that picks it up on their own. Swing isn't
              taught almost at all either.
              \_ you are stupid.  Look at the original question.  you _must_
                 be a class of 2k|2k+ grad.  Say, nerdboy, he asked what do
                 you _know_ now what you are _taught_ and if you've been a
                 good little nerd eecs boy then you've had internships, and
                 guess what you're learning on those internships?  It ain't
                 BSD. (and don't bother erasing this, I've got a perlscript
                 to keep placing it back).
                 \_ last I remember, people were concerned about learning
                    asp, jsp, servets, and oracle stuff.  This was more
                    of a concern than C, C++.  I assume they'd know C from
                    60b, or 61c.  And some C++ (but not much about templates
                    and certainly not much about makefiles. - paolo
           \_ C/C++ is dead. Everybody is learning the new Microsoft
              Language C- --social science major
        \_ Many classes still use C++.  Also, really, a berkeley grad should
           be able to learn languages quickly. -nweaver
           \_ Indeed.  I learned LISP from scratch (with no prior LISP/ELISP/
              Scheme knowledge) in a few days when I took my CS164 which used
              LISP to write the compiler.
              \_ When(/where?) was this?
              \_ Now you are ready to learn K   -muchandr
        \_ Well, C++ the OOP language is getting whacked by Java
        mindshare-wise. I think the GP stuff might grow popular enough to
        give it a new start though. We'll see.  -muchandr
2000/8/9-10 [Computer/SW/Compilers] UID:18930 Activity:high
8/8     When I compile C++ with dynamic dispatch, will the actual generated
        code (assembly) contain a lot of if-else check for each method
        call? How about Java? Is the compiler smart enough to do flow
        analysis and do type checking to narrow down types, thus speeding
        up the method call?
                \_ This sounds like one of the weenies 6-8 years ago who
                   always loathed the use of "virtual" in C++, afraid of what
                   the cost of a couple of table lookups would do to their
        \_ It uses a function dispatch table.  Very efficient.
        \_ If you are smart enough to worry about whether your compiler
           does flow analysis, you should be smart enough to research your
           vague assumptions.  Check out _The C++ Object Model_, Stroustrup
        \_ Yes, Java and C++ use runtime dispatching, which adds around 1-5
           cycles of overhead per function call (for commonly executed
           routines, where the function table is in cache) and 10+ cycles
           (for infrequently executed ones, or where you're just executing
           lots of functions or somehow else thrashing cache). If you're
           invoking lots of small methods (which is how these
           languages are typically used), that can be a huge loss of
           performance. THere has been recent work on, e.g. dynamic
           compilation to specialize away the function table lookup. Can't
           recall the authors off the top of my head. -nick
        \_ Sun HotSpot (and presumbly IBM/Tower equivalents) easily inline
        and compile virtual calls at runtime. At least with Sun's, you are
        back to very small methods because the compilation of a method is
        triggered simply after several thousands iterations are counted -
        if you inline everything into one flat main() or run(), it'll never
        get compiled but you'll pay dearly for all the profiling. You won't
        hear this from Sun.             -muchandr
2000/8/9-10 [Computer/SW/Languages/C_Cplusplus] UID:18931 Activity:kinda low
8/8     Someone please explain 'extern "C"'? Tech URL prefered. Thanks.
        \_ It specifies a C function interface -- this affects linkage,
           mangling, and parameter convention.  Theoretically your compiler
           could also accept extern "Pascal" or extern "Scheme"
        \_ It tells the C++ compiler you're including old fashioned C code.
           \_ bzzt, not exactly, thats just what most people use it for.
              Specifically it does exactly what the first responsder said...
              this means C++ code could call a C function or a C code could
              call a C++ function... and the linkage, mangling, and
              parameter conventions are used appropriately.
              \_ Second responder.  I put it first because I was correct. -!ali
2000/8/9 [Uncategorized] UID:18932 Activity:nil
8/8     When did psb graduate from Berkeley?
        \_ Email him and ask.
2000/8/9-10 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll/TJB] UID:18933 Activity:high
8/8     Do people bait psb nowadays or is that too passe?  -alumni psb baiter
        \_ When did psb graduate from Berkeley?
        \_ No.
           \_ Email him and ask.
        \_ like shooting fish in a barrel, this too gets old quickly
           \_ now we bait paolo
            \_ but that's too damn easy
              \_ nah, that's old hat, now we bait tjb
                 \_ nah, tjb takes too long to get stoned and reply
                    \_ Speaking of which, someone get that puppy some
                       weed, pronto. has been pretty dull
                       the past couple of days.
2000/8/9-10 [Uncategorized] UID:18934 Activity:nil
8/8     <DEAD><DEAD>
        \_ wow. their parents must be so proud of their 21st century digikids
        \_ what is this, Kids II?
           \_ "Butterscotch schnapps, yo."
2000/8/9-10 [Politics] UID:18935 Activity:nil
8/8     sigh.  You know "Dead Man's Party" by boingo is a really good
        album... it's 15 years old.. sigh.  I am getting old.
        \_ but they weren't boingo back then!
           \_ right. Mystic Knights of Oingo Boingo.  Hell tho, i remember
              the "Little Girls" video and their appearance in Back to School
                \_they haven't been "mystic Knights of Oingo Boingo since
                  before "Only A Lad" came out, at least three albums
                  prior to "dead man's party"
        \_ wait, when did they change from Oingo Boingo to just Boingo?
           \_ 1994.  They went from Oingo Boingo to the latter. They went
              back to Oingo Boingo when they had the horns back for their
              fairwell tour - paolo
        \_ You're all a buncha old sickos.
2000/8/9 [Uncategorized] UID:18936 Activity:nil
8/8     Are promotions common for those on the technical track?
        \_ Yes.  If you're not clueless.
2000/8/9-10 [Academia/Berkeley/Ocf] UID:18937 Activity:moderate
8/9     Thanks for the ssh passphrase advice.  The OCF machines are
        messed up in some way.  I can get in to soda from anywhere else
        without passphrase prompting.
        \_ This works for me on OCF TOO. The OCF machines are not messed up.
           Email staff@ocf if you still have this problem.
           \_ foo!  Which machine did you try it from?  I presume
              the command was 'ssh -l foo', and
              you also had an .rhosts entry?  Thanks.
                \_ Don't forget to list the full names of the OCF machines,
                   (i.e. <DEAD><DEAD> - not just ocf.b.e.)
                   \_ Yeah I just tried it again from scratch.  Still says
                      "unknown or invalid host key".
2000/8/9-10 [Computer/HW/Printer] UID:18938 Activity:high
8/9     Which (if any?) affordable photo printer can rival lab prints?
        \_ At CompScrewSA, I have seen ribbon based die sublimation
           printers.  The results looked pretty good, not perfect, mind
           you, but a heck of a lot better than inkjets.  -nweaver
           \_ Epson's 870/1270 6 color inkjets beat them, along with the
              online printers like ofoto.  The catch - there either is or
              is not an issue with color fade on certain papers.  I'd wait
              till it is resolved, or buy from a place with a 30 day
              return policy.  The 870's msrp is 299. -jor
           \_ url or price range? Last time I checked they were $2000.
                \_ No URL, I seem to recall they were in the sub $500 range,
                   HORRIBLY slow printing, heavy media cost, but the hardware
                   itself was rather cheap. -nweaver
                   \_ Last time I checked was six years ago...
        \_ Hey foo'.  There's a July review on zdnet of a $800
           printer with exceptional image quality.  You'll find it.
2000/8/9-10 [Uncategorized] UID:18939 Activity:low
8/9     I need to find the CORE nic for a name server...whois,,
        nslookup, etc. don't seem to have do I find it?
2000/8/9 [Uncategorized] UID:18940 Activity:nil
8/9     nickkral R3  adsl-63-201-156- Tue10AM     1 nwrite chris
        Are nickkral and chris having an affair? nick has serious asian fetish
        \_ wow, nwriting someone is having an affair?  I'm in trouble.
2000/8/9-10 [Uncategorized] UID:18941 Activity:moderate
8/9     Sometimes when I use "ssh -l <username> <hostname>" for the first
        time it asks me if I want to add that host, I say "yes" and every-
        thing's fine.  Other times, it refuses to allow me to connect.
        I get simply, "Permission denied." in response.  Any idea why?
         \_ this might happen if the username doesn't exist on that system.
         \_ might not have permission to write to the key chain (like
            on an NT system where Fsecure uses a single global one.
2000/8/9-10 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd, Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:18942 Activity:kinda low
8/9     I know this has been asked before and i know y'all are reluctant
        to answer this kind of question with anything other than RTFM
        and usually an answer like "man [cmd]" IS helpful but i'm afraid i'm too
        much of an idiot to get it on this one SO...
        Would somebody PLEASE post an EXAMPLE of a cvs or rcs command to read
        mehlhaff's motd,v from some past day.
        \_ vi motd,v.
           \_ non-formatted non-useful comment deleted.
        \_ Where's the motd,v file?  Thx.
           \_ ~mehlhaff/tmp/motd,v
        \_ co -d"2000/08/09 11:23:45" ~mehlhaff/tmp/motd,v  -- yuen
         \_ someone kick this guy off the motd. he actually posted
            something useful.
            \_ You're hereby kicked off the motd. Stay away. Or else.
        \_ Read ~marco/bin/motdbrowse, I usually use motdbrowse -c
2000/8/9-11 [Computer/HW/Printer] UID:18943 Activity:kinda low
8/9     I want to connect a new epson printer (USB) to my old powerbook 3400
        which lack cardbus support.  Is there any host adapter that will help?
        \_ Ain't there SCSI->USB bridges out there?
           \_ Not that I know of.  If you do, URL please.
        \_ I just saw a SCSI->Parallel bridge at WierdStuff. Combine it with
           a USB->Parallel bridge and you might pull it off. Simpler solution
           might be to get a $100 print server.
2000/8/9-10 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:18944 Activity:nil
8/9     Yay I get to use my gnu RCS motd,v $k1llZ!!
2021/06/19 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2000:August:09 Wednesday <Tuesday, Thursday>