7/7     http://www.recycleplus.org/worksale.htm
        composting workshop tomorrow in San Jose.  Come and learn about ways
        to reduce and compost your garbage.  Keep America beautiful.
        \_ beautiful and San Jose jsut don't work together
        \_ beautiful and San Jose just don't work together
           \_ What's wrong with San Jose. - living in SJ since 82
                \_ yeah, what's wrong witb San Jose? -  since 74
                \_ yeah, what's wrong with San Jose? -  since 74
                   \_ San Josans are embarrassed to sign their names.
                      \_ that's San J0Z3RZ!!!!
        \_ Since the purpose is to help the environment, why don't they also
           post the workshop material on the web site so that people can
           choose not to burn gasoline to drive there to learn about it?  (I
           don't know if public transportation is possible.)  --- yuen
           \_ check out that site.  it has a lot of info already.  The workshop
              goes into more detail and has demos.  And they bring sample
              materials.  Composting is a see, touch, and do kind of thing. :)
              BTW, pro-environment doesn't mean "don't drive yer car".  Even
              the president of the sierra club has a car.  Since I started
              the president of the sierra club has a car.
                \_ the Sierra Club is concerned with hiking trails; they
                   don't give a shit about the environment.  -tom
              Since I started
              composting I've reduce my solid waste by about 70-80%.  If you
              are a recyler we want to turn you into composters as well.
              Check out "worm composting" you can do that in an apartment,
              without a backyard.
                \_ Uhm, I'm not sure I want to hear about your "solid waste
                   reduction....  That's nasty.

7/7     Anybody going to BayFF?
        \_ Yup.

7/7     After you're married, are you allowed to go to your buddy's
        bachelor party?
        \_ After you're married, you're allowed to do absolutely anything
           that you and your wife agree is ok (and within the law, etc, etc).
           There is no generic standard by which we judge morality in this
           country anymore.  Look at Clinton and how many otherwise intelligent
           and reasonable people think he's a good guy of high moral character.
           Live your life, don't let others live it for you.
        \_ Good sir.  I believe the answer to your question is "Yes".
           Particularly if you're good friends with your buddy.  Just
           make sure to turn down lap dances.  The general idea is
           "leer but don't touch".
                \_ lap dance is no touch, isn't it?
                   \_ Just what do you mean by ... "touch"? -bclinton
                     \_ yuck yuck!  you just made a funny!
        \_ No.  It's forbidden by law for anyone stupid enough to ask
           such a question to attend.  (What do you mean "allowed"?
           If you're invited, you're allowed to go.  If your wife objects,
           you're still allowed, but may choose not to.)
        \_ After you're married, are you allowed to go to your buddy's
           fiancee's wedding shower as a male stripper?
                \_ Yes.
           \_ After you're married, are you allowed to send your wife
              to your buddy's wedding shower as a stripper? If so, can
              you touch?

7/7     People should not reproduce.  Humanity is a virus       -nweaver
                \_ get a life, moron.  -tom
        \_ LIVE IT!!! http://www.vhemt.org
        \_ After you're married, are you allowed to reproduce at your
           buddy's bachelor party?
                \_ Yes.
        \_ Too much The Matrix for you.
           \_ Maybe too much everyday stupidity.
              \_ I AM AGENT SMITH! Mr. Anderson, your life is at an end!
        \_ I think that we would encourage adoption over the
           creation of new life. There is so much suffering in
           this world that those who are capable of caring for
           infant life should try and help those infants that
           are suffering most. I know this sounds like a cheesy
           commerical with the starving kids that they show on
           TV, but when you see it with your own eyes its really
           hard to turn away.
           \_ So everyone should adopt... where do you think babies come
              from?  They're not delivered by VARs and OEMs.
                 \_ Dude, you're talking about sodans. Most of
                    them are like jj; the only naked women they
                    have ever seen are in anime.
              \_ Not everyone, but most people ought to at least
                 think about it. It may not be appropriate for
                 everyone, but I will probably adopt rather than
                 reproduce.

7/7     MOTD Poll:
        On most of my accounts, my umask is set to:
        000: 0
        002: 0
        022: 0
        027: 0
        066: 0
        077: 0
        777: 0

7/8     question related to below:  does anyone know how to stop getting
        junk mail from the credit card companies?  I have exactly one
        debit card that has the mastercard logo on it, and dont ever want
        antoher card.  unlike other junk mail supliers, i cant find a [way]
        to call and complain, and each time its from a slightly different
        bank.  if i just throw this shit out without shredding, some
        jerk can fish it out and get a credit card in my name. how do you
        fight these bastards?  it's bad enought that they have to
        ruin the lives of people gullible enought to use their "services",
        they have to threaten my credit too?
        \_ call the credit agencies and they should be able to help you
           out
        \_Buy a shredder too.  They're not expensive.
        \_ I just rip them in half, without opening them, and then toss
           in the garbage. Never got defrauded. The applications require
           some personal credit info too. If you are so worried, you should
           get a POBOX and also only put your outgoing mail at the main
           post-office, because anybody could steal your mail and get
           a lot more juicy info on you. Also, make sure you change
           your address every few weeks, otherwise someone could order
           a bunch of Good Housekeeping magazines or Columbia House
           music CDs in your name and not pay for them.
                \_ You just rip and toss?  Uhm, say, where do you live?
                   \_ Oakland.

7/7     Funyons reduce censors effectiveness by 70-80 percent!!!
        \_ what are funyons?
           \_ aren't they those onion chips?

7/7     Chicken and egg question: I want to apply for a credit card and
        never had one before.  I apply for one and get rejected because
        they said I don't have a credit history.  How are you supposed
        to have a credit history, required to obtain a credit card, when
        you've never had a credit card to develop that history?
        \_ This is why you apply for a student card before graduation.
        \_ Have a bank account? They will probably grant you a card.
           \_ That's how I got a credit card. I opened an account at
              Bank Of America, and after a month or so of maintaining
              the minimum balance, they offered me a visa card. I
              like BofA's visa since you can check its balance and your
              checking accounts balance online. ----ranga
        \_ Try harder!  Apply for a few more.  My ex is a foreign
           student from a third world dirt poor country, had no money
           and was 19 yrs old.  Even she was able to get a credit card
           after a few tries.
        \_ Idiot. if you're smart, you dont WANT a credit card. All
           you need is the ability to pay for this electronically,
           without costing you money. You get that by getting an
           account at almost any bank, that offers a "debit card",
           so any place that takes visa, you can pay for stuff.
           Do that for a year or three and you will be buried in
           offers for credit cards.
                \_ Idiot.  You can't buy anything bigger than a breadbox
                   without a good credit rating.  You WANT a credit card.
        \_ Idiot: ever try and buy a house/car, get a loan for said
           if you have no credit history? Any fool who uses a debit
           card to buy stuff online is BEGGING to have their money
           stolen. At least with a Credit Card they AREN'T STEALING
           YOUR MONEY, but some bank's. Provided you have a no annual
           fee card and you make all your monthly payments, it costs
           you nothing to have and use your card.
           \_ I have done transactions with a debit card, and a
              credit card. I have experienced fraud with both.
              The credit card made me fill out a form, mail it in,
              and wait a month. The debit card took my complaint over
              the phone, and gave me my money back IMMEDIATELY, no hassle.
              \_ i had debit card fraud and it took the bank about 3 weeks
                 to give me back my money, and I had to fil out forms,
                 call people back all the time etc.  During that time my
                 bank account was compeltely cleaned out and I couldn't
                 even pay my rent without borrowing money.  It sucked.
           \_ I would mostly agree with this, but if someone ever gets
              your account number with a debit card, they can clean out
              your account which could lead to bounced checks and other
              unpleasant things, but if this happens with a credit card,
              it should be a little easier to handle.
              \_ Just remember that you won't be liable for more than $50
                 if reported within one day or $500 if reported between
                 2-60 days. The bank would reverse the fees for you, and
                 so on. I agree it's more of a pain, but not impossible to
                 deal with. Also, most debit cards (and credit cards,
                 too!) have a daily maximum and maximum purchase limit
                 that the customer is not informed of without asking. --dim
                 \_ I thought it was $50 max, as long as your reported
                    it in a reasonable amt of time (30-60 days, or whenever
                    you get your bill).
                    \_ http://www.natlconsumersleague.org/debitbro.htm#whatif
           \_ With credit cards, you also delay paying your expenditures,
              and let your money earn more interest in the bank.  Real
              Men (tm) have self control over their spending.  They don't
              need no debit card to assist them.  But if you are not a
              Real Man (tm), don't pretend to be one, just get a debit
              card.
              \_ If !Real Man, shouldn't even get a debit card. Let
                 yer mom handle your money.
               \_ Obviously, with the rate of bankruptcy in america,
                  this is not the home of Real Men.
              \_ Geeze.  Just use cash then.
           \_ Another way to develop credit is to take a small loan
              with the bank you use. They can see your worthiness from
              your bank statement and job. Then, regularly make payments
              on the loan to develop a credit history. NOTE: dont
              pay it off too soon because it should take 6-12 months.
        \_ Some credit card companies have special "student" cards. My first
           two were discover and I think chase. Low credit limits, but just
           use them a bunch and pay them back in full. Then you're golden!
        \_ One thing you can do is get a "secured credit card".  With a
           secured card you give the card company X dollars and you get
           a credit card with a limit of X dollars.  It functions like
           a credit card but if you don't pay your bills the company can
           just keep your deposit.  The advantage of a secured card over
           a debit card is that you get the consumer protections of
           credit cards.  This means that if someone makes fradulent
           charges you can get your money back, which is not he case
           if you have a debit card.  Citibank used to offer a secured
           card back when I was a freshman at Berkeley.  -emin
        \_ Best is to get one of those free low-limit credit cards
           when you're still in college. It's easier for college student
           to get a cc than someone with a degree. After graduating,
           sign up for magazine, respond to junk mail, fill out those
           product-warranty cards (and write down a high salary), and then
           you'll be swimming in credit card applications (like the
           junk mail the other above poster has got). Do not do those
           "secured credit cards", unless you already have BAD credit.
           \_ Bah. Just get a "secured" card, which you are pretty much
              guaranteed to get. Then buy stuff with it and pay it off
              immediately.  In 6 months, they will be be begging you to
                 often give you automatical qualification. UCB employees
              take their regular card.
              \_ Well, suit yourself, but it just seems weird on some
                 level to be giving someone money ahead of time for
                 a credit card. I agree with the other poster who said
                 get it thru your bank. Also, use Credit Unions as they
                 often give you automatic qualification. UCB employees
                 doing you a "favor" by giving it back to, along
                 and most high-tech and defense-contractor companies
                 offer CU memberships. Check it out. They often give
                 better interest rates too. A place that still pays
                 you for the use of your money. Screw BofA and WF --
                 they hold your money and then act like they are
                 doing you a "favor" by giving it back to you, along
                 with charging you monthly fees and atm fees as
                 they continue to also make interest off your money.
                 \_ Just get a student card and be done with it.  I did it in
                    my senior year and have fantastic credit now.  My first
                    two cards had shitty limits but they had no annual fees
                    and I only wanted a credit rating anyway.

7/8     hello, does anyone here own a Bibler tent? Anyone know where to get
        one without paying sales tax? ok tnx, --psb
        \_ http://www.bibler.com
        \_ Tax fraud.
           \_ OH NO!