Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2000:June:21 Wednesday <Tuesday, Thursday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2000/6/21-22 [Computer/Domains, Computer/SW] UID:18503 Activity:moderate
6/20    What's the best way to un-ROT13 a file?
        \_ "rot13 filename", but you knew that, right?
            \_ http://soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU% which rot13
               rot13: Command not found.
               \_ % locate rot13
2000/6/21 [Computer/Networking, Computer/HW, Computer/SW/OS/Windows] UID:18504 Activity:high
6/20    Any suggestions for SSH that would work under Win NT/2000 with
        a proxy server?  Thanks.
        \_ What kind of proxy server?
2000/6/21-22 [Science/Electric, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:18505 Activity:high
6/20    It costs less for a gas dryer to dry one load of clothes than for an
        electric dryer, or for a gas heater to heat up a room than for an
        electric heater.  But does gas dryer/heater actually use less natural
        resource than the electric one to get the job done?
        \_ depends where you get your electricity from
           \_ PG&E for both gas and electricity, in the Bay Area.
        \_ I think better question to ask is rather natual gas dryer/heater
           is more "efficient" than electronic one.  And the answer is "YES."
           electricity is typically coming from some sort of hydrocarbon
           (in U.S., chances are, it's coming from burning coal).  And during
           the process of convert hydrocarbon to electricity, you typically
           will only get 65-70% efficiency on a good day.  So, in that
           sense, gas dryer/heater use "less" natural resources to achieve
           same effect.
           \_ So what's the efficiency of burning gas in a gas dryer?  Close
              to 100%?
           \_ Not coal.  That's China.  A tremendous amount of US electricity
              is coming from nuclear power plants and hydro.  Most of the rest
              is petro.  Coal?  Not in the last 50 years in this country.  Once
              the rest of the world runs out of oil, we can tap the alaskan oil
              fields and a few other places and use more nuclear before we have
              to touch the coal reserves in a serious way.
                \_ 40% of US power still comes from coal. The Mid-Atlantic
                   states are full of it. 60 Minutes showed mining companies
                   flattening the hills of Tennessee and Virginia with
                   nitroglycerin and bulldozers bigger than a Ford Expedition.
                   \_ Check out :
                      it details the amount of crap a coal plant makes.  --PM
                \_ Someone tell the Los Angeles Dept. of Water & Power that
                   the billions they've spent building coal-fired power plants
                   over the last twenty years is a waste of money since you
                   refuse to admit their existence.
                \_ Want to try real numbers instead of making up your own?
                   Check out
                   Some numbers:
                        1994: Southwestern US - 74% coal, 26% natural gas
                        1999: California - 20% coal, 20% hydro, 31% gas,
                                16% nuclear, 12% "renewable" (solar, wind,
                                biomass, geothermal, etc.)
                \_ My error in being unclear.  I did not intend to state that
                   coal use in this country is zero but simply that it isn't
                   at the levels of use in less developed countries like China.
                   I certainly don't refuse to admit the existence of coal
                   derived power in this country.
        \_ in the summer PG&E generates quite a bit of power in its
           gas turbine plants around the edges of the bay (those noisy little
           blue buildings with the smokestacks).  it is more efficient for
           you to generate heat by burning gas than for PG&E to turn into
           electricity (with loss) so you can turn electricy into heat
           (with more loss).
2000/6/21-22 [Computer/SW/Languages/C_Cplusplus] UID:18506 Activity:very high
6/20    I have a variable inside a struct.  I want to be able to initialize
        that variable ONCE and not write to it again.  Any subsequent writes
        should not be permitted.  Is there a way to do that in C?  I know
        about "const int foo = 5;" but the value I need to pass in is dynamic
        and happens at runtime.  Declaring a variable as const doesn't let
        me assign anything to it at all.  Thanks.
        \_ No.  -pld
        \_ There is but it involves changing the variable to a pointer. You
           make the pointer point to a big array of these variables that are
           all alocated from a section of memory that you have mprotect()ed
           to disallow writes. Then you have to worry about the exception
           that happens when you get the write...Who are you trying to stop,
           anyway? Plugins? Your program has a lot of power over its own
           address space. Are you trying to prevent mistakes or what? I hate
           these questions where people pose some narrow problem instead of
           their goal. --aaron
        \_ Uh... since you're coding it why not just not write to the var
           \_ you are a fucking moron. "gee, if you're writing the code,
              why bother with abstraction and documentation?" -ali
                \_ Still waiting for your answer, asshole.  "you are a fucking
                   moron but I don't have a working solution any better than
                   yours!"  I'd rather be a fucking moron than an asshole
                   *and* a fucking moron like you.
                   \_ i'd rather be an asshole than say things like "uh...
                      i don't know what i'm talking about, but i'll tell
                      you that your question is irrelevant anyways." -ali
                        \_ Yup.  You're an asshole *and* a moron.  Thanks for
                           clarifying this.
                 \_ ali is the asshole supreme my friend.  the egomanic
                    of all egomaniacs.  and, oh yeah, a moron. if you're
                    going to post on the motd you have to expect some
                    flames like that.  don't let it bother you.
                       -- bitter alum who loathes ali and wishes him ill
                    \_ dude. you are pathetic. -ali
                    \_ uhm.  ali has clue, and enough spine to give technical
                       advice on the motd.  you haven't proven shit -- so
                       siddown and shaddup.
                       \_ uhm.  ali does not have clue.  why?  because I
                          said so! -logician extraordinaire
                          \_ Still waiting to see ali's fantastic technical
                             advice on this matter.  "you are a moron" isn't
                             technical advice, even on the motd.
                             \_ please see below. i'm offering two solutions.
                                one of which seems to be under dispute, though
                                the antagonist's position isn't clear. -ali
                                \_ My position is clear and I think it doubly
                                   funny that *you* would call anyone else an
                                   antagonist after starting off by calling
                                   someone else a moron.  Seek help.
        \_ Use ML or prolog.  All variables behave like that by default in
           these languages.
        \_ cast it to mutable for the initialization.  cast it to const
           for the routines that shouldn't change it.  as close as you
           can get to "not permitted" in C for anything...
           \_ just declare it const and when you initialize it, cast the
              constness away. i can't think of any way a machine could
              magically put ONE field in a struct in read-only memory. -ali
              \_ it could optimize the const and eliminate the field.
              \_ you are a fucking moron.  "im too dumb to know about compilier
                 optimization so ill just ignore it!"  -!ali
                 \_ look dumbshit, i forgive you this one time but please don't
                    make adhominem comments unless you know what you're talking
                    about. to the fellow who replied first, try writing:
                    struct S { const int field = 45; };
                    in C. you will notice that this is not valid C. in fact
                    until a few years ago, it wasn't even legal C++. now, if
                    i declare
                    struct S { const int field; };
                    there is NO WAY for the compiler to know at compile time
                    what the value of "field" is. hence the field cannot be
                    optimized away.
                    to the dipshit who replied second: i can teach you C if
                    you like. i'm very patient. -ali
                                  \_ coulda fooled me!
                                    \_ i'm just saying.
                        \_ Duh, you're wrong *again*.  Just give it up, ali.
                           \_ what's wrong with what i'm saying? is
                           struct S {const int field; } not valid C? -ali
                           \_ Depends.
        \_ another disgusting thing you can do:

                struct S {
                        /* int X */
                #       define X x_setter*1

                        /* private */
                        int x_setter;
                } s;
                s.X = 3   /* doesn't work because s.X => s.x_setter*1 */  is an
                rvalue. there are of coruse problems with the precedence of
                *. -ali
                \_ This falls miles outside the bounds of "good coding
                   practice".  I hope you don't write code like this for real
                   world use.
        \_ All this argument is grating. C/C++ can get disgusting,
           fast. Why bother with the horrid details? If you're not writing
           something that is very dependent on super optimiziation,
           just make a bool and switch it once you write to the value,
           and check the bool after all writes.
           \_ The idea is to catch this at compile-time. Otherwise, you can
              just as well say "well don't write to it more than once"
                \_ And there's nothing wrong with that.
           \_ man, i wish more poeple who are wrong would at least display
              a certain level of uncertainty in their argumentation so that
              the rest of the world doesn't feel like they have to retort
              with all their might. start your arguments with something like
        \_ summary: suggestion from aaron, an anonymous person, ali, and pld..
           moron motd dumbshit say "it won't work" without explainign why.
           idiot flames grammar.
           \_ Shutup ali.  Nobody cares about you or your hairy scrotum,
              if you even had one to begin with.
              "i don't know much about good programming, but..." and you
              WILL get a good answer from someone who does, and it will be
              polite and pleasant one. Aver shit like "THIS IS USELESS JUST
              FORGET IT" and you'll get the kinds of answer you deserve and
              you encourage harshness on yourself.
                \_ Huh?  English?  Some speaking Engrish goodly on motd!
                   \_ what part of the above don't you understand? i'm sure
                      people can teach you english as well as C.
                        \_ me think you not know article part of engrish and
                           need help much on using pROPER cAPS aND use,,, of,,
                           a c,om,ma,, or two and me wonder whats word phrase
                           "Aver shit like" mean and general bad grammar from
                           coming is.  hypocrite bad speaking you telling
                           other people me needing engrish resson.
2000/6/21 [Computer/SW/OS/OsX] UID:18507 Activity:high
6/19    What's the difference between the names "Coca Cola" and "Coke"?  Pepsi
        Cola only has one name.
        \_ Do you know anyone who calls it "Pepsi-Cola"?  Everyone I know just
           says "Pepsi".  Many products have formal names and nicknames, look
           at Mac/Macintosh, VW Beetle/Bug, etc.
        \_ Coca-Cola, Inc., trademarked "Coke" (tm) before Pepsi-Cola, Inc.,
           even existed
        \_ Coca-Cola is caffeinated carbonated water with high-fructose
           corn syrup that you drink to get high.
           Coke is a C17H21NO4, a great drug that you can sniff or smoke
           to get high.
           Both come from the same place.
                \_ cocaine.
                 \_ wow you are brilliant aren't you
2000/6/21 [Consumer/TV, Recreation/Media] UID:18508 Activity:nil
6/19    Where can I get previous episodes of older tv shows?
        \_ UPN
           \_ I think the subtlety of this reply might be overlooked.  Bravo.
                \_ It was clever but not subtle.
        \_ Columbia House Video or Cable TV (esp. Nick-at-Nite, TV Land, A&E,
           BET, & F/X)
2000/6/21-24 [Computer/HW/Soundcard] UID:18509 Activity:kinda low
6/20    I'm confused about AC-97. I know it's a PC-audio spec, but
        what does it really mean to someone buying a mainboard?  Does it
        just provide a couple input/output ports?  Does it require / allow
        the use of a seperate sound card?
        \_It  really doesnt mean anything to the average purchaser
          of a main board, yes it does allow but does not require
          the use of a separate sound card.:wq
                                           \_ {vi,motdedit} user was here
                                              \_ Sharp boy!
                                                 \_ Fuck you asshole. Just
                                                    because it's on soda
                                                    motd, it doesn't mean
                                                    the author is male.
                                                      -original [female] poster
                                                    \_ Might as well.  Although
                                                       only some club wielding
                                                       butch Berkeley dyke
                                                       would get so wild eyed
                                                       droolingly upset as to
                                                       start off with "Fuck you
                                                       asshole" for the mild
                                                       assumption of gender in
                                                       a 95% male organization.
                                                       I don't think you count
                                                       as female, dude.
2000/6/21-24 [Computer/HW/CPU] UID:18510 Activity:high
6/20    For the purposes of user apps, what would the approximate performance
        equivalents be for Sun's SPARC{5,10,20,Ultra10} on the Intel scale,
        assuming same specs on everything but CPU? (user apps is meant to
        refer to non-realtime, non-graphics/DSP intensive, non-float intensive;
        just, say, an office suite)
        \_ you are a stupid idiot with poor critical thinking skills.
           As far as user apps, you're going to have a hard time finding
           the equivalents of Office 97 or PhotoShop on Solaris systems.
                \_ Doh, staroffice, what a bloated piece of junk. My P166
                   runs MS Office apps faster all at once than a brand new
                   Ultra5 runs StarOffice.
                \_ StarOffice or Applix, PhotoShop or Gimp, not that hard.
           \_ don't start this holy war; that was meant as a hypothetical
              situation. thanks for the spec95 link
        \_ Most of the machines you list are 7-8 years old, around the time
           \_ I realize that. It's not an issue of whether Sun or Intel
              r00L3z more. These are the machines I have available
              unfortunately, so I just wanted to see where they fit in.
              \_ Ultra10 is Ok desktop box. SS5/10/20 are fine as long as
                 they have decent CPUs (+100Mhz), 128MB RAM, and decent
                 disks (2GB or larger).
              \_ basically Intel is cheaper and faster CPU, but SPARC
                 workstations are used more often to do real work
                 because Sun offers a complete performance package.
                 \_ Would you call Ultra5 or Ultra10 a "performance package"?
           of the 486 and very early (very hot) Pentiums (60-90Mhz).
        \_ For me, one SETI@home work unit usually takes 26-27 hours on a
           Sparc20 with a 150MHz "Ross RT626" CPU (whatever that is), while it
           usually takes 11-12 hours on a PII 350MHz.  Both are running text
           versions.  So maybe a PII 350MHz is more than twice as fast as a
           Sparc20.  But then this is floating-point intensive, so maybe it
           doesn't count.  --- yuen
           \_ Did they do a lot of optimizing?  I was doing 26.5 hours per
              \_ I don't know, but on the PII it has been roughly the same
                 speed for me since v1.2.  -- yuen
              unit on a p2-450 6 months ago.
              \_ Times were A LOT shorter if you disabled the graphics.
                        \_ Linux is 3-4 times faster at setiathome than
                   \_ Aw, it's just a fancy Qume terminal.
                \_ Uh, i dont think that sunray is a me
                   a favor: Type "/usr/platform/sun4u/sbin/prtdiag" and
                   "uptime" tell us the machine model, the amount of RAM,
                   the number of CPUs, and the amount of cache on each CPU,
                   the memory banks size and intrlv.
                        \_ caught by the troll, hook line & sinker.
                        \_ If anyone is curious: Sun Enterprise E4500
                           159 users, 10240 MB RAM, 8 CPUs(each with
                           8MB cache running at 400Mhz).
                           Never seen anything so fast.
                        \_ Except an E10000 that I had to myself for awhile :)
                           Windows 9x on identical hardware.  -tom
                        \_ I was using NT.  I don't think it had an option to
                           disable graphics.  I got bored and uninstalled it
                           after they started feeding the same packets for
                           three days.
           \_ A co-worker set up some seti stuff on my workstation.
              It produced 5871 WU today. What does that mean?
              I dont know what kind of CPU it has, but my computer is about
              3/4th the size of a laptop and has "SunRay" written on it.
                \_ You're using an old model SunRay - the new ones are much
                   faster and look just like a monitor or flat panel display.
                   SETI WU's fly through them.
2000/6/21-22 [Uncategorized] UID:18511 Activity:low
6/20    Can anyone recommend a brand for dry-erase whiteboards (3'x4' and
        larger in size)?  I've seen the Quartets, but most of them have
        fold-up hangers, which look ugly.  Anyone know any economy-priced
        mobile whiteboards (on casters)?  Most of those are > $200.
        \_ "Average" price is $600 in the business world. If you want
           to spend $100 or so, just go to OfficeDepot/Max.
           \_ Yeah, the porcelain on steel boards are $200-400.  Can you
              suggest a brand name?
              \_ Steelcase, Herman Miller, Hon.
                 \_ Herman Miller and Hon don't have white boards on their
                    web sites, and Steelcase doesn't have a price.  Thanks
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2000:June:21 Wednesday <Tuesday, Thursday>