Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2000:June:02 Friday <Thursday, Saturday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2000/6/2-4 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll/Kinney] UID:18384 Activity:low
6/2     This Sunday, Fugazi @ golden gate park.  Some csua ppl are going
        email paolo for details
        \_ Que'est Fugazi?
           \_ the extremely lame band formed after Minor Threat broke up.
              Minor Threat was one of the greatest american hardcore bands
              ever, and fugazi is just another whiny alternative band.
              \_ who are you, so I can hurl shit at you?
                 Sleater-Kinney plus the invisible scratch pickles are playing
                 too.  AND ITS NOT GOLDEN GATE PARK. Dolores Park.
                 - danh
                \_ rent Donnie Brasco
        \_ lettuce not forget dj disk and buckethead
2000/6/2-3 [Computer/Theory] UID:18385 Activity:high
6/1     Prove that gaussian is the only function family closed under
        convolution. ie, forall f,g in H, exists d in H st d=conv(f,g) ===> H
        is gaussian family.
        \_ The difficulty of the problem hinges on the definition of
           'function family.'  I could, for instance, come up with many
           'function families' of one element each for which the above would
           \_ The difficulty does not hinge on the definition of the
              function family in the trivial way you suggest; it is deeper.
              There exist uncountable sets of functions H
              such that for all f,g in H, f * g is always in H.  One
              example of such a family is the set of sinc functions
              A sinc (w x) with w in [1 2] and A being any real number.
              This was what I was trying to point out below.  -emin
              \_ Right.  The definition could be made too narrow (to make
                 closure easy), or too wide (for instance by making H the
                 set of all continuous functions on R), which would also
                 make closure easy.  The point, in both cases, is that
                 we are missing the definition of what a function family is.
                 My guess is that a function family is a set of functions
                 with the same finitely expressible closed form (finitely
                 expressible to avoid the fact that continuous functions on
                 R all have Taylor expansions).
           \_ Utter nonsense about complete set of real functions deleted.
              Take a math course, for crying outloud. -- motd math censor.
              \_ fuck you.
        \_ This isn't true.  Let f(x) = g(x) = sinc(x), then f * g = f.
           Also, if you let f and g be generalized functions
           then f(x) = delta(x) = g(x) results in f * g = f = g.
           I belive what you are thinking of is that if you restrict
           f and g to be probability density functions then Gaussians
           are the only pdfs closed under convolution.  Not sure how
           to prove this off the top of my head.  Please let me know,
           when you find out.  -emin
           \_ Depending on the minutia of the formal definition of PDF,
              a delta function may be considered a PDF as well (since
              the integral is defined to be 1....). Then, of course,
              delta can also be considered a Gaussian with 0 st dev.
           \_ yeah, sorry i meant pdf. i'm aware of the delta function case,
              but i guess i'd like to define "in the set of" as
              "approaches an element in the set H, in some sense". also,
              i think the proof i have in mind requires L2, which deltas
              aren't. so my proof was going to look something like:
              since it's a PDF, it must be the square of some other function.
              look at the fourier transform of the square of something, and
              realize that it must be closed under multiplication in the
              fourier domain. assuming that the function is in L2, that
              constrains it to a large class of functions, which includes
              boxes and exponential functions. then i was going to use
              the fact that this is the fourier of a SQUARE of a something
              to show that within the exponential function, it must be
              gaussian. i don't know yet how to get rid of the other families
              that are closed under multiplication.  -ali
           \_ man, do you always have a comment on everything, mr. fricking
              i know everything about anything?
                 -- alum who dislikes you intensely
                 \_ Disliking ability in others is the only form of evil
                    I know. -- Ayn Rand #1 fan
                     \_ having ability is one thing, discussing
                        topics like this here is another...go to some
                        math newsgroup, don't clog the motd with this
                        extraneous garbage.
                        \_ Oh bull-fucking-shit.  Any kind of math discussion is
                           vastly better than most motd discussions, and you know
                           it.  It's no crime to be stupid, but it's a shame to
                           be bitter too.
              \_ The motd has helped me out a lot.  Consequently I feel
                 a responsibility to give back and try to help answer
                 questions which I have a clue about.  I'm not trying to
                 show off.  If you have a suggestion how I can try and
                 contribute to the motd without offending you, please
                 let me know. -emin
                 \_ i don't think "alum" was referring to you. you typically
                    provide the kind of insight the rest of the CSUA is
                    completely incapable of providing. -ali.
                     \_  i'm talking about ali, not you emin.
                       \_ you stupid shithead. i'm the one who asked the
                          initial question. if you have a problem, feel
                          free to post your own moronic "how do i make
                          text bold using html" questions. -ali
                          \_ 'Take your math elsewhere' stupidity deleted, due to
                             its inherent idiocy.  -- motd math censor.
2000/6/2-4 [Transportation/Bicycle] UID:18386 Activity:high
6/1     For those who have never biked in a city, any advice?
        \_ Read "Effective Cycling", by John Forester.
           Ride on the right side of the road, don't ride on the sidewalk,
           ride far enough away from parked cars that an opening door
           won't get you.    -tom
           \_ Which means riding in the street.  How's your medical insurance?
              Linux is safer.
                \_ two things: riding in the street is safer than riding
                   on the sidewalk, and riding in the street on a bike is
                   safer than driving.   How's *your* medical insurance?  -tom
                   \_ Stop with the bogus statistics.  We're all smart enough
                      to twist the numbers to say anything we want.  At least
                      come up with a URL so your numbers can be torn apart
                      fair and square.
                   \_ The first link is full of crap statistics carefully
                      chosen to make biking look "6 times safer than living!"
                      The article makes the claim that if you were immune to
                      all other forms of death and cycled 24x7 you'd live 6
                      times longer.  Uhm, what?  What a crock.  The second
                      link is just a reprint of the exact same numbers from
                      the exact same people on a chart that was already in the
                      first link.  Use Linux.  I'm pretty sure it's safer than
                      riding your bike in the middle of the street.  Since
                      there are no Linux vs. Biking Safety bogus 'studies' out
                      yet, I can't 'prove' it though the same way you tried.
                        \_ I won't defend statistics coming from impartial
                           studies from the flames of an anonymous coward.
                           I only ask, where are *your* statistics?  -tom
                           \_ No study is impartial.  Someone paid them to
                              do it.  Nothing is free.  Your typical ad
                              hominen attack is sooooooo old, tom.  Let it go.
                        \_ I think it's funny that I completely smashed tom's
                           totally biased statistics "biking is safer" nonsense
                           and it all got deleted but all the pro-bike garbage
                           was left behind.  The truth hurts so some baby has
                           to delete it.  No, I'm not saying tom deleted it,
                           but whoever did is a big cry baby biker.  I have a
                                \_ I'm not denying the health gain from this
                                   or any other form of excercise.  The stats
                                   tom provided are twisted beyond the point
                                   of meaningless, however.
                           copy but won't bother restoring it.  I successfully
                           made my point if someone felt the need to
                           selectively purge it.  Once again, the biker crowd
                           proves to have the whiney baby bad apples.  Biking
                           is *not* proven safer.  Certainly not "6 times safer
                           than living!".  Time to graduate and join the adult
                           world, kids.
                        \_ The presentation of the stats is clearly partisan.
                           I also disagree with the use of time over mileage,
                           since you spend more time to get there on a bike.
                           Since it is based on all cagers and cyclists, I
                           don't think you can claim either to be safer.
                           the health gain, otoh, is inrefutable. -jor
                                \_ I don't need contradictory stats.  I'm more
                                   than satisfied to have proved my original
                                   point, namely that you don't have any valid
                                   stats to back up your false claim that
                                   biking is safer than driving.  Thanks.  I'm
                                   done with this thread.
                        \_ per-exposure-hour is pretty much the accepted
                           method for risk assessment.  If you cycle rather
                           than drive, you won't commute to Sunnyvale from
                           Berkeley.  In a given time frame (or lifetime),
                           exposure hours for a cyclist and driver will be
                           similar, even though exposure miles will not be.
                           Exposure-hours is clearly a better measure if you
                           are interested in how likely it is that you
                           personally will be affected.
                           I agree that the presentation of the stats is
                           partisan--that's because it's a cyclist's site.
                           But I challenge you to find contradictory stats
                           of any kind.  -tom
        \_ be careful, especially in berkeley...almost got sideswiped
           by an ac transit bus.
                \_ Doesn't matter if your on bike or in car, ac transit
                   drivers don't give a shit and figure it's your job to
                   get out of their way.
                   \_ ...and thats probably the least that you can do. If
                      I drove a 30 foot bus around for 8 hours a day, I'd
                      probably be somehwat pissed too.
        \_ A friend of mine fell to avoid a pedestrian on campus and broke his
           PalmV.  Make sure you carry it in a hard case and not a leather
           one if you bike a lot.
        \_ One friend of mine had a bad fall.  Mostly burns but he was in such
           pain I have to go pick him up.  My old roommate got it worse -
           concussion, loss of consciousness, broken jaw, bike disappeared,
           overnight stay at ICU, loss of maybe 3 week worth of memory, huge
           medical bill, one lost semester.
                \_ Must've been the fault of the car.
                    \_ Who knows.  I also biked to school everyday in Berkeley.
                poor college students.
                       It is very dangerous (heard of other incidents too), so
                       becareful.  Also, be very careful with bike thieves.
                       A good bike is almost gauranteed to be stolen unless you
                       are extremely careful with it.
                        \_ You need a Denver Boot for your bike.
                        \_ Who knows?  *Obviously* it was the car's fault.  The
                           guy on the bike is *always* an Innocent Victim of
                           the Evil Motorist.  Bikers *never* do any sort of
                           "creative" non-following of the laws. Never happens.
        \_ very simple piece of advice that you will pick up fast.  STAY OFF
           THE MAIN DRAGS.  Biking down, say, Sacramento, is foolish.  Just go
           a block off the main streets and creativly pay attention to traffic
             \_ But who would be the first to bitch and moan and piss and whine
                if cars were half as creative with the laws as bikes?  When
                they require a license to ride a bike in traffic, I'll take
                bikes seriously.  Until then, it's for kids, AIDS rides, and
                poor college students.  [Restored the truth for you big baby
                biker types who can't deal honestly with life]
             \_ exactly!  stay off the min streets.  especially shattuck
                to avoid those ac transit buses unless you have a death
                \_ Sacramento is a fine cycling street.  Telegraph is the
                   best commute street in Berkeley.  Side streets have bad
                   intersections--most bike/car accidents happen at
                   intersections.  Riding, for example, on Colby/Hillegass is
                   much more dangerous than either Telegraph or College. -tom
                \_ I used to bike up and down San Pablo Ave, especially if
                   it was busy.  The only naer collisions I had with cars
                   were ones that sped through side streets.
        \_ Yeah, ride 24x7 and you'll live 6 times longer according to tom's
           bike safty statistics.
2000/6/2 [Computer/SW/Unix] UID:18387 Activity:high
6/1     it's fucking summer man, go outside and get off the MOTD!
        \_ yeah, it's fucking hot too.  still brings back memories
           of what was the number...199 cory with those awful green
           vt100 terminals and the sweltering heat.
           \_ e260 and a room full of diskless sun 3/50s!
              \_ Oh, man I *dreamed* of getting to use e260.  I was stuck in the
                 WEB (back when it meant something different)....
        \_ idiot.
                        \_ Meant what?
                           \_ "Workstations in Evans Basement".  I *hate*
                           \_ "Workstations in Evans Basement".  BTW I *hate*
                              those 3/50 keyboards.  The Sparc ones are much
                              better.  (Of course the tvi920c ones are even
                              worse, but we're not stuck with those.)  -- yuen
                                \_ Uh, I know what WEB meant.  You were implying
                                   pre-sun 3/50s in the WEB.  e260 had the same
                                   3/50's and file servers as the WEB.  It was
                                   the same cluster split over two physical
                                   \_ I know.  I wasn't the one who said
                                      dreaming of e260 and stuck in the web ...
                                      -- yuen

                                    NFS Server widow not responding...
                                    NFS Server widow ok.
                                        \_ Yes!  I had forgotten how much fun
                                           that message was!  How nostalgic!
                                           Except you need the "not responding"
                                           line about 15 more times.
2000/6/2 [Computer/Theory] UID:18388 Activity:high
6/1     Dinosaurs and antigravity:
        \_ it was once "proven" that you would suffocate if you moved
           faster than 20 miles per hour. What a load of crap.
        \_ /.
           \_ It's \. not /. -- bill gates
           \_ Yeah, but read it.  It proves that at one time the earth's
              gravitational pull was much lower.
              \_ No it doesn't.  Read the responses in /. and you'll see
                 refutation of the numbers.
                 \_ Not surprisingly, slashdotters are wrong.  Bad math.
                    \_ I can't find anything on searching for
                       dinasour.  However it seems highly unlikely that they
                       would screw up the trivial math.  It is not the math
                       that is problematic but the underlying assumptions.
                        \_ maybe that's because its spelled DINOSAUR!
              \_ Maybe the atmosphere was richer in oxygen such that muscles
                 could grow much stronger and withstand a much higher force-
                 per-unit-area than those in modern animals.  Maybe the winds
                 blew much stronger than nowadays such that a glider could
                 take off easily.  Just some idea.  -- yuen
                 \_ Wind might help the flyers but doesn't help a 70+ ton
                    beast stand up.  I don't know enough anatomy/biology to
                    say anything about your oxygen theory.  Where's a bio-
                    dynamics major when you need one?
2000/6/2 [Computer/SW/Compilers] UID:18389 Activity:moderate
6/1     Is g++ (gcc) installed anywhere other than /usr/bin/g++?  Any newer
        version than  (locate didn't help)
        \_ So, get yourself added to the contrib group and install gcc-2.95.2
           (or whatever is the lastest version).
                \_ They weren't whining that it wasn't installed.  They were
                   asking if it was installed.
                \_ It might help if you actually read the question, fuckwit.
2000/6/2 [Recreation/Food] UID:18390 Activity:nil
6/1     I went to In&Out Burgers for the first time.  Man, I don't know
        what the hell people are bragging about.
        \_ the burgers are tasty...not like that salty shit you buy from
           mcDonald's.  firmer than the whopper, which is more akin to
           a sloppy joe.  still, barney's rules tops, esp. the turkish
           coffee milkshake and spicy curly fries.  kiss your low cholesterol
           level goodbye...
             Oscar's?  shit food for a shit price, I could make better
             stuff at home.
        \_ Their fries are the bomb. Burgers are a step up from McDonald's
           & Burger King, but not up to par with Barney's.
         \_ The bomb?  You're watching too much black trash on Jerry Springer.
         \_ the fries are disgusting.  The burgers are prety good if you
            like that kinda burger, but I'd rather go to oscars.
                \_ their fries are the absolute worst.  Their burgers are
                   passable.  It's mostly just faux nostalgia.  -tom
                   \_ Well, I love their fries. The only fries that I've
                      had better were Boardwalk Fries, which used to be in
                      Valley Fair. Sadly, it's gone :(
                \_ the fries are limp and often taste like they've been
                   fried in fish oil.  Yuk!
                \_ The fries are unique in that they MUST be eaten hot.
                   They go from being the best fries to being the worst if you
                   let them sit and cool down.  So this basically means you
                   have to finish your fries before even thinking about starting
                   your burger.
                   \_ that's not unique in these days of starch-sprayed fries
        \_ Order the double-double animal style. mmmm.....
                \_ Not as good as having it 10 by 10 animal style!  Oh yeah!
                   And yes, I must say the fries are crappy... not very crispy
                  \_ order your fries well-done.  mm, like potato chips! --oj
        \_ You get your lovely Bible reference at the bottom of your cup (at
           least for shakes and for cokes).  Gotta love the fundementalist
           Christian wackos putting their religion down your throat, literally!
                \_Yeah, but you only get "John 3:16."  Like a scratch-and-win,
                  I always look to see what I got each time ... only to find
                  out I'm a loser for having faith in organized religion!
        \_ This only goes to show that the people you know have no taste. To
           say something is better than McDonald's is quite similar to saying
           it is better than garbage from my compost heap.
           \_ What would you compare In & Out to then? I'm comparing  it to
              its competition, which is fast food joints.
                \_ I would have the good sense not to eat at McDonald's, In &
                   Out or any competitor.  My compost heap tastes better than
                   your compost heap.  Is it important that my heap is tastier
                   than yours?  Think about it.
                \_ sometimes in the issue of time, fine dining is not
                   an option...
                   \_ sometimes in the issue of time, showering is not
                      an option either. just tour 2nd floor soda.
2000/6/2-3 [Computer/SW/OS/Windows, Computer/SW/Unix/WindowManager] UID:18391 Activity:moderate
6/2     I'm looking for open source unix ware to create a web based email
        archiving service.  It should allow people to sign up/remove remove
        themselves and have a threaded message archive.  Some sense of user
        levels would be nice, too, like anonymous people can only read the
        archive, but 'registered' people can do whatever, and an admin level
        who can delete messages.  The number of registered users is going to
        be under 20 and never grow above 20 or so.  Performance isn't a big
        issue.  This is a personal project.  Thanks for any pointers!
        \_ you seem to be describing a web based newsgroup like slashdot
           more than you are a web based email service.  if that's the
           case just go to  they have their entire source
           code (called slash) published online under gpl.
                \_ I want archives based on incoming mail.  The web interface
                   is only for reading old email archives in threaded format.
                   I don't want slashdot.  Email comes in to some majordomo
                   like handler, gets archived on the web pages, and gets sent
                   out to the correct list of folks on the list.  If there's a
                   web interface to archived majordomo email that would
                   probably do the trick.
                   \_ Do you mean something like hypermail?
                        \_ I might.  Got a URL?  Thanks!
2000/6/2-4 [Uncategorized] UID:18392 Activity:high
6/2     http:/~tpc/grrls/01jenna.jpg.  Is that Jenna Jameson, the one that was
        once on Howard Stern's show in "Private Parts"?
        \_ tpc sounds christian.
        \_ Who sang "Walking in Memphis?"
          \_ Howard Stern sings?
          \_ billy joel?
          \_ Cher. (at least one version of it)
          \_ Marc Cohn?
        \_ soft03.jpg is in the wrong folder.  It should be in /booys/
                \_ Thuon is gay
                   \_ But is he hot?
2000/6/2-4 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA] UID:18393 Activity:low
6/2     Um, could people please delete their crap in /csua/tmp so the rest of us
        can use it (it's nearly full).
209952 -rw-r--r--   1 ausman    csua      107424768 Apr 21 18:38 dkdemo.exe
 99664 -rw-r--r--   1 yulius    csua       50985272 Feb 24 12:15 x620wnt.exe
 50896 -rw-r--r--   1 marc      csua       26031487 Mar 11  1999
 21792 -rw-r--r--   1 blojo     csua       11146549 Jun 16  1999
        \_noooked -ausman
 99664 -rw-r--r--   1 yulius    csua       50985272 Feb 24 12:15 x620wnt.exe
 50896 -rw-r--r--   1 marc      csua       26031487 Mar 11  1999
        \_ unknown actor will play across Natalie In SW:EPII
 21792 -rw-r--r--   1 blojo     csua       11146549 Jun 16  1999
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2000:June:02 Friday <Thursday, Saturday>