Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2000:May:03 Wednesday <Tuesday, Thursday>
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2000/5/3-6 [Politics/Domestic, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA] UID:18159 Activity:nil 66%like:18161
05/02 CSUA Fall 2000 Election Results:

                     President:  Paolo Soto (paolo)
                Vice-President:  Mike Howard (mikeh)
                     Secretary:  Eli Bingham (lye)
                     Treasurer:  Bem Ajani Jones-Bey (ajani)
                     Librarian:  Paul Twohey (twohey)
2000/5/3-7 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:18160 Activity:nil
05/02 Job listings in /csua/pub/jobs/ExchangeWave (it's some B2B ecommerce
      startup by Berkeley grads) -dans
        \_ Moved to the unofficial motd by the motd god. -- the motd god
2000/5/3-4 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:18161 Activity:insanely high 66%like:18159
4/33    CSUA Fall 2000 Poll of What the officers run Results:

                     President:  paolo (linux - slackware)
                     \_ I thought Paolo's OS of the week was OpenBSD,
                         becasue he's a '1337 H@x0r, and it's kR@d to be
                         into security.
                        \_ No. It's cool not to get fucked over by the latest
                           buffer over flow bug in Linux/Windows.
                Vice-President:  mikeh (bsd - FreeBSD)
                     Secretary:  lye (linux - redhat)
                     \_ He "wants" to run RedHat, but uses Win9x.
                        \_ taking 162 == barely enough time to wash hair,
                           let alone install 31337 h2x@r os... besides,
                           computers suck.  i think an iroc-z would get
                           me more wimmin. -lye
                     Treasurer:  ajani (linux - debian)
                     Librarian:  ][e (linux - ppc)
                     \_ Does 2e even run Linux on his own computer?
                        AFAIK, he uses MacOS.
                        \_ he's on a research group.  Dual Xeon sits on
                           his desk.  It's running linux.  I don't think
                           he even uses his laptop anymore (it's broken
                           and sent back to apple)
                           \_ It's a Dual PIII, and is shared by everyone
                              in that group.
                              I'd be really impressed to see you
                              get LinuxPPC on a x86.
        "And lo, as fortold by the prophets, it has come to pass that
        the Daemon giveth way."
        \_ I thought Paolo's OS of the week was OpenBSD,
            becasue he's a '1337 H@x0r, and it's kR@d to be
                 into security.
                 \_ No. It's cool not to get fucked over by the latest
                    buffer over flow bug in Linux/Windows.
        Vice-President:  mikeh (bsd - FreeBSD)
        Secretary:  lye (linux - redhat)
        \_ He "wants" to run RedHat, but uses Win9x.
           \_ taking 162 == barely enough time to wash hair,
                   let alone install 31337 h2x@r os... besides,
                   computers suck.  i think an iroc-z would get
                   me more wimmin. -lye
        Treasurer:  ajani (linux - debian)
        Librarian:  ][e (linux - ppc)
        \_ Does 2e even run Linux on his own computer?
                AFAIK, he uses MacOS.
           \_ he's on a research group.  Dual Xeon sits on
              his desk.  It's running linux.  I don't think
              he even uses his laptop anymore (it's broken
              and sent back to apple)
              \_ It's a Dual PIII, and is shared by everyone
                 in that group.  I'd be really impressed to see you
                 get LinuxPPC on a x86.
        "And lo, as fortold by the prophets, it has come to pass that
        the Daemon giveth way."
        \_ The Dreaming Tree has died.
        \_ Paolo is president again? What kind of morons vote for this moron?
                                      \_ You moron.
           \_ A good thing the VP was someone with OS choice clue.
              \_ I heard mikeh invented the Internet.
        \_ mikeh can't be VP forever.  in 2 years,  Soda will be linux.
           I just hope not redhat.
           \_ The alumni will never allow such heresy.  (Just remember
                who bought Soda Mk V.)
           \_ So, besides becoming more of a target for script kiddies,
              what benefits would Linux on Soda bring?  None of the people
              who really want to switch to the trendier option (ie
              just Paolo) can explain how Linux would work better
              on Soda. -mikeh
              \_ Oh, that's not the argument.  Fact: after mikeh, there
                 aren't any new users using bsd that I've seen hanging
                 around the office/wanting to be vp. Therefore, in the
                 future, unless the alums are _really_ nice and chummy,
                 the future admin will probably use what 0S she/he is
                 familiar with. - paolo (who doesn't plan to run for
                 VP any time soon)
                 \_ The VP does not have unilateral control over everything
                    on soda.  The alumni offer a great deal of support to
                    soda; I plan to do likewise when I graduate, but if some
                    new clueless hotshot comes along and tears out all the
                    work that we've done, I'll be significantly less motivated
                    to help.  Besides, it's sad that nobody, yourself included
                    Paolo, is willing to learn and work with something that's
                    not the latest trend. -mikeh
                    \_ i ran freebsd on my old box. I don't anymore.
                       I don't have that much school spirit I guess.
                       \_ What does school spirit have to do with it?
                          \_ 'bout the only reason to run BSD.
                                \_ Kewlness being the only reason to run Linux
                  \_ You know, none of the CSUA members ran Dynix at home.
                     Only Alan (AFAIK) ran Domain_OS at home. Yet that's
                     what soda ran for years n' years. Yet somehow, the VPs
                     of that day and age were familiar with those OSes. How
                     do you figure that could have been?  -- fuddy duddy
                        \_ We need a kewle OS on soda so it can run slower
                           with more hardware and be down every other day
                           for kernel 'upgrades' and buffer overflow bugs.
                        \_ I've still got that Apollo if anyone wants it.
                           68030/16Mhz, 8Mb RAM, 170Mb ESDI HD -alan-
                 \_ Only blojo is naysayer --pld
              \_ WAAAAh.  You mean you ugrads aren't compleetely under my
                 power?  WAAAAAh.  I'm going to take my toys and go home.
                 WAAAh.  Lameness.
             \_ Hey, is the TDA up and running?  Vadim got it running raid
                with linux (dbl ended).  How's fbsd with that raid?
                \_ Works fine.  What do you think the TDA was running
                   when it was in service?
                   \_ !freebsd 4.0?
                        \_ Yeah, fbsd 4.0 was the first version of fbsd.
                   \_ FreeBSD 3.x, courtesy of Satoshi Asami.
        \_ Hi.  In case you haven't heard.  We have mark 6 now.  this wasn't
           an alumni donation.
           \_ I like speaking.  In short sentences.  Because I'm cool.
           \_ Well, I guess that's that.  Current student body has no need
              for dinoalumni.  We have no value (until you become one and
              need a job or a clue).  It's time to go ahead and wipe all
              the alumni accounts.  Makes more room for pr0n and in
              \_  YOU WILL DO NO SUCH THING OR I WILL COME BACK TO
                  BERKELEY TO HURT YOU
              /var/spool/mail for those unable to figure out how to use a
              real mail program and .forward files.
              \_ Not all alumns are viscious dour naysayers.
                \_ And some of us even know how to spell.  Maybe we'll get a
                   Redhat RPM for /usr/bin/motdspell.
                \_ no, we're viscous dour naysayers.  -John
                   \_ yes. slippery as eels in magma.
2000/5/3-4 [Computer/Theory] UID:18162 Activity:very high
4/32    Stat 200a vs Stat 101 vs Stat 134 -- any comments? Experience with
        any would be appreciated too. (Assuming that purpose is applications
        in an arbitrary area of theoretical CS)
        \-sigh, i guess i will wade in: if you let me know what topics you
        \_ Can you describe the subject matter please?  I am too lazy to
           look it up.
        are interested in terms of math-speak [theortical CS to me is more
        algebra than probability] i might be able to make a recommendation.
        are you interested in models, time series, probability/measure,
        game theory or more specific stuff like genetic algorithms, neural
        nets, baysian stuff/AI? --psb
              \_ bayesian. -- card-carrying bayesian
        \_ And in general, I hate genetic algorithms.  Why are they even in
                      \_ This is why I should have signed my blurbs in motd.
                         -- alice
           the same category as neural nets and bayesian nets?  They are
           completely unprincipled.  There are no convergence results for
           genetic algorithms.  In fact, you are not even guaranteed to
           improve in each iteration.  The whole thing is a scruffy atavism
           be an engineer, i.e., look into EE126 and EE226.
           from the free-swinging days of AI when any yahoo could get a PhD
           by writing an Eliza program. -- card-carrying bayesian
        \_ 134 was kinda fun in a gambler's anonymous kinda way.
        \_ Real men (and real CS theoreticians) take Stat 205ab.  Given
                \_ and don't forget those strange women that know how
                   to do math.  You know, women that are men.
                   \_ "MATH IS HARD!  LET'S GO SHOPPING!"  -Barbie
                      \_ Actually that was 'Malibu Stacy'
                   \_ Real men don't get their panties in a twist over
                      convenient abbreviations like the phrase "real men".
                      \_ Morons.  This is why I should have signed my blurbs
                         in motd.  -- alice
                        \_ Signing it didn't make a difference.  Go fuck off.
                           \_ Previous animosity not registered.
           your choices, however, I'd go with Stat 134, because they seem
           to talk about more complicated stuff like random processes.  It
           really depends on how you plan to use it.  If you just want to
           know enough to get by in CS 174, then math 55 or CS 70 is more
           than enough.  If you are serious about stat, but your math
           background is not very good, then do the next best thing and
           be an engineer, i.e., look into EE126 and EE226. --alice
           \_ Given decent math background (core upperdivs), and completion
              of cs174 (fwiw). Explain difference between 200 and
              205 series; it seemed like 200's are more hardcore
              than 101/134, and 205 seems less comprehensive from
              catalog description.
              \_ 200ab are for business/economy majors, is my understanding.
                 \_ One of the things I noticed is that EE226 and several
                    IEOR classes require the 200's. Biz/econ majors?
                    \_ Ignore the requirements.  YOu can pick up whatever
                       200 stat you need while taking those classes.
                 Like I said, real men take 205ab, but not with Klass next
                 semester--I heard he's a terrible teacher--take it with
                 Pitman the year after.  You'll run through measure theory
                 in the first hour of the first lecture.  (You'll return
                 to it, don't worry.)  Then you go on to the good stuff
                 like the Laws and the Processes.  It'll be very mathematical,
                 but well worth the effort.  This is all hearsay, btw, I
                 haven't yet taken 205.  To the best of my knowledge, you
                 don't need such a solid foundation in stat for any CS
                 theory courses.  However, you'll probably have a much more
                 transcendental experience in Sinclair's MCMC class
                 with some 205 under your belt. Mmmm, the Sinclair Eclair.
                        -- alice
                 \_ For fun with AI, take Michael Jordan's year long series
                    of courses on graphical models.  They are cross-listed
                    as graduate stat and graduate CS.  Very cool stuff.
                      -- ilyas
                        \_ I thought he was a retired basketball star and
                           ex-talk show host?
                           \_ No, he is actually a star AI researcher,
                              freshly stolen from MIT.  He works on
                              variational approximation methods that allow
                              one to deal with very large graphical models.
                                -- ilyas
                              \_ Oh yeah.  Forgot about Mike's classes.
                                 They will be excellent.  Knowing him, he's
                                 probably going to go through calculus of
                                 variations, variational methods, mean-
                                 field theory, and general statistical
                                 mechanics in one lecture.  It'll be a blast.
                                   -- alice
                                 \_ My ass still hurts from last time.
                                    -- ilyas
                                    \_ Please don't make me picture your
                                       ass, ilyas.
2000/5/3-4 [Science/Electric] UID:18163 Activity:low
5/03    Anyone who works in industry know what a typical threshold voltage
        for a 0.18u process is (specifically IBM copper and TI) or are these
        things "trade secrets"?
        \_ Just about everything about a fab process (except feature size) is a
           trade secret.  Only if the benefits of disclosing it (i.e. good PR)
           outweigh the possible drawbacks of announcing your technology is
           something like that announced.
        \_ Just about everything about a fab process (except feature
           size) is a trade secret.  Only if the benefits of disclosing it
           (i.e. good PR) outweigh the possible drawbacks of announcing your
           technology is something like that announced.
2000/5/3-4 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:18164 Activity:moderate
4/33    Where can I find housing information for the Berkeley area?  Is there
        a on compus organization that can help?
        \_ hahahahahahahahahahahaaaa!!!!!!!
         \_What's so funny?
          \_ Housing? What do you need housing for? Sleep on Telegraph
             in a box, save you the $1,000 rent you'll have to pay
             for a 10'x10' studio in Berkeley.
        \_http://www.housing.berkeley.edu/housing/cal_rentals/index.html
2000/5/3 [Uncategorized] UID:18165 Activity:nil
4/33    How can i make ls NOT descend directories?
        \_ ls -d
        \_ ls | man ls
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2000:May:03 Wednesday <Tuesday, Thursday>