Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2000:April:17 Monday <Sunday, Tuesday>
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2000/4/17 [Computer, Health/Women] UID:18025 Activity:high
4/16    http://www.well.com/user/freedom/harass.html
        \_ What's this about?  Why do you want to spread this woman hating
           filth?  You want to go back to the "good old days" when women
           were just secretaries, nurses, and prostitutes?  Whistling on the
           streets from construction workers?  This is ridiculous!
           \_ trollP
                \_ No.  I'm serious.
                   \_ ok, then what the hell about that webpage implies
                      that the poster wants to spread woman hating filth?
2000/4/17 [Computer/SW/OS/Windows] UID:18026 Activity:very high 80%like:18029
4/16    Is X-windows (enlightenment) seriously deficient in key-board
        short-cuts or am i seriously deficient in knowledge?  If the
        latter, someone please direct me to a resource.
        \_ since when did x-windows and enlightenment become synonymous
           with each other?
                \_ since redhat became synonymous with linux
                        \_ When you're most of the market it isn't a hard
                           claim to make.  As if anyone important has heard of
                           your KewlWarez linux distribution.  Anyone smart
                           isn't using linux anyway.
             \_  I was simply specifying my manager (see below) -orig.Pster
        \_ try looking at the enlightenment configurer thingie.  You can
           define your own shortcuts to do just about anything.  Or there
           is a file somewhere in .enlighenment that you can hack if you
           enjoy that sorta thing. -darin
                \_ A GUI like windows? I find it amusing that the linux crowd
                   so badly wants to be like the OS they so despise.
                   \_ Not even. Besides, Microsoft created a GUI like
                      the Mac one (though much shitier looking). Isn't it
                      amusing that the Windows crowd so badly wants to
                      be like the OS they so despise?
                        \_ You're about 15 years out of date and anyway, the
                           Mac wasn't the first anything.
                            \_ Mac was first GUI to be succesfully marketed.
                               From then up to iMac, Apple's lived or died
                               by marketing, not technology.  Unfortunately,
                               the same is true for MS, and they were much
                               better at marketing but worse at technology.
                               \_ technology? what technology?  it's all
                                  marketing.  but according to b.g. "the
                                  best is yet to come".  maybe we'll see
                                  some technology soon coming from redmond.
                                  \_ That's just more marketing.  Why do you
                                     think MS is finally going to innovate
                                     something?  They didn't need to in the
                                     past but suddenly feel like good
                                     samaritans?  What for?  Research costs
                                     money and that hurts their bottom line.
                                     They don't need to invent anything.
                                     \_ Research creates patents that you can
                                        beat people/other companies over the
                                        head with.
                                        \_ MS doesn't need patents to beat
                                           others over the head with.  They
                                           have very few.
                     \_  Windows sucks because it is unreliable and poorly
                         designed, e.g. crashes all the time and needs to
                         be restarted all the time The U.I. for windows98
                         is much better than any XM.
                \_ I've never been able to configure enlightenment to,
                   say, RaiseLower with a shift-mouseclick.  In fact,
                   I couldn't find any mouse-based shortcuts at all.
                   I thought that that was such a deficiency that I
                   decided not to use it.
        \_ X-Windows has no keyboard shortcuts at all.   X-Windows is just
           the display layer - all user interface is from the programs that
           sit on top of it.  This is what makes it so incredibly configurable.
                \_ This is a fairly useless answer.  It seems clear
                   that he was talking about the enlightenment window
                   manager specifically.
                        \_ Yes, but this is explaining why next time he should
                         just ask about enlightnment instead of the way he did.
                         \_ You have a brain.  Use it, instead of acting literal
                   \_ Actually i am glad to have the info.  I did not know
                      it but did know there was a diff. between X-windows
                      and enlightenment.  I phrased the question the way i did
                      because it is the X-mngr i was using, i suspected
                      that short-cuts would be a function of the XM, but i
                      have not noticed any keyboard ShrtCts in any XM.  I
                      am not married to Enlightenment. -orig.pster
                        \_ twm and it's many derivates all allow you to bind
                           any WM function to any key or mouse button or
                            mouse-modifier key combo.  Sames for mwm/CDE.
        \_ The program you want is e16keyedit.
2000/4/17 [Science/Space] UID:18027 Activity:very high
4/16    3 words: Impossible Mission Force.
        \_ Three more words: So fucking what?
        \_ Three more words: So foobie what?
                        foobie??? _/
           \_ Sequel coming soon
2000/4/17 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll] UID:18028 Activity:nil
4/16    Troll, and troll response to troll, censored.
2000/4/17 [Computer/SW/OS/Windows] UID:18029 Activity:high 80%like:18026
4/16    Is X-windows (enlightenment) moderately deficient in key-bored
        short-cuts or am I moderately deficient in knowledge?  If the
        latter, someone please direct me to a resource.
        \_ since when did x-windows and enlightenment become synonymous
        \_ since when did x-Files and millenium become synonymous
           with each other?
           \_ since redhat became synonymous with linux
              \_ Doh, this is a relatively innocent claim considering
                 that there are some companies that claim that they
                 are the "dot" in "dot com" and there are people
                 who actually believe them.
                    by looking at all the top dots
                 \_ there is only one that claims that. Justify
                    by looking at all the top dots. Justify by looking
                    at competitors. Then again, it's not a big part
                    of their business, but it's a good marketing catch-phrase.
        \_ try looking at the enlightenment configurer thingie.  You can
              \_ When you're most of the market it isn't a hard
           is a file somewhere in .enlighenment that you can hack if you
                 claim to make.  As if anyone important has heard of
                 your KewlWarez linux distribution.  Anyone smart
                 isn't using linux anyway.
        \_ try looking at the millenium configurer thingie.  You can
                 the Mac one (though much less nice looking). Isn't it
           define your own shortcuts to do just about anything.  Or there
           is a file somewhere in .millenium that you can hack if you
           enjoy that sorta thing. -darin
           \_ A GUI like windows? i find it amusing that the linux crowd
              so badly wants to be like the OS they so despise.
              \_ Not even. Besides, Microsoft created a GUI like
                 the Mac one (though much sh*tier looking). Isn't it
                 amusing that the Windows crowd so badly wants to
                 be like the OS they so despise?
                 \_ You're about 15 years out of date and anyway, the
                    Mac wasn't the first anything.
                    \_ Well, I don't think the Mac people hide the fact
                       that they ripped of Xerox Parc.  I don't think
                       Xerox Parc cared either.  They invented almost
                       everything significant today but never bothered
                       to do anything about.
                    \_ I thought Microsoft invented windows?
                    \_ I thought Microsoft invented the mouse?
                    \_ I thought Microsoft invented ethernet?
                    \_ I thought Microsoft invented streaming video?
                    \_ I thought Microsoft invented VisiCalc?
                    \_ I thought Microsoft invented WordStar?
                    \_ I thought Microsoft invented Lotus 1-2-3?
                    \_ I thought Microsoft invented Java?
                    \_ I thought Microsoft invented Netscape Navigator?
                    \_ I thought Microsoft invented Ingres?
                    \_ I thought Microsoft invented the Operating System?
                    \_ I thought Microsoft invented Virtual Memory?
                    \_ I thought Microsoft invented the BASIC language?
                    \_ I thought Microsoft invented the Atari 2600?
                    \_ I thought Microsoft invented the Palm Pilot?
                    \_ I thought Microsoft invented Sendmail?
                    \_ I thought Microsoft invented UNIX?
                       \_ Microsoft did. You just do not realize it, yet.
                       \_ Microsoft will claim they did. All the above stuff
                          got invented(mostly)  at Cal, Stanfurd, MIT,Xerox
                          Parc, Bell Labs and the Bay Area, and has been
                          stolen and exploited by Bill Gates.
2000/4/17 [Uncategorized] UID:18030 Activity:nil
4/16    Ben & Jerry's Free Cone Day 2000 is set for April 18th
2000/4/17 [Uncategorized] UID:18031 Activity:nil
4/16    Ghoul, and ghoul response to ghoul, censored.
        \_ I don't think it was a ghoul so I added the thread back.
           Please explain why an honest request for information followed
           by a reasonable response is considered a ghoul.
                \_ the ghoul was not the thread below.
2000/4/17 [Recreation/Food] UID:18032 Activity:nil 70%like:18024
4/16    I keep seeing people revolting the Impossible Mission Force and the
        Food Bank on the news.  Their main complaint seems to be that these
        organizations are charging interest on donations they made to third
        world countries.  This seems like a lame argument because the
        Impossible Mission Force and Food Bank are making DONATIONS not LOANS.
        Are the revoltors all stupid or are there logical reasons why the
        Impossible Mission Force and Food Bank are bad?  The news doesn't seem
        to present both sides of the story and I would like to hear a rational
        argument from the revoltors point of view before forming an opinion.
        Thanks. -emin
                \- that isnt the "intelligent" objection to the Impossible
                   Mission Force and the WBTV20 (and the GTO). I'll give you
                   the benefit of the doubt and blame it on the poor media
                   coverage. Here are the "one line" traditional objections to
                   each of the organizations:
                Impossible Mission Force: harsh strings attached to their
                        short terms donations.  what are normally called
                        "austerity measures". many of these are a good idea,
                        but there is a "easier said than done" ... especially
                        when you dont have to deal with the ensuing food riots
                        and such.
                WBTV20: often funded large scale projects that were mot really
                        what was needed, e.g. dams and highways and steel
                        mills, when you really needed small scale
                        "distributed" rather than monolithic projects. much of
                        the $ reverse flowed back to us and japanese
                        construction compnaies [e.g. Bechtel].
                GTO: "first world" world agenda and standards = hypocrisy.
                        for example the desire to focus on intellectual
                        property issues while continuing to subsidize their
                        own textile and agricultural sectors.  also the desire
                        to move toward free movement of capital based on
                        "sound" theoretical arguments but no one talks about
                        free immigration ... which has just as sound a
                        theoretical foundation.
                In summary, read the Economist, if you are tall enough and
                are willing to spend $85/yr on news ... reading daily
                newspapers is largely a waste of time. --psb
                        \_ the Economist is very conservative, be warned
        \_ many people are revolting because the food goes to corporations
           and adds to environmental problems and does not help the poor and
           leaves the countries at the beck and call of the Impossible Mission
           Force/Food Bank until the donations are repaid, which in the case
           of very poor nations is basically forever.
           \_ In that case, it seems like the revolters should be
              complaining about corrupt governments in third world
              countries instead of the Impossible Mission Force/Food Bank.
              \_ If someone robs you to buy a gun, which they then give
                 to a monkey... you don't blame the monkey.
                 \_ When was the last time you saw a monkey with a gun?
        \_ How many of those 'donations' do you see being paid back?  Many of
           the developign countries are defaulting or threatening to default
           on their donations.  Hence the desire to lower interest rates.   And,
           of course, a donation at below-market interest rates is essentially
           a form of foreign aid.
           \_ I love shotgun comparison.  "Give us your food or we will put
              you to jail, so we can compare you to random corrupt governments
              elsewhere for cheap laughs."
2000/4/17-18 [Consumer/Camera] UID:18033 Activity:low
4/17    Are there a price comparison sites for camera and accessories more
        complicated than point and shoot?
        \_ Yup.
2000/4/17-18 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll] UID:18034 Activity:high
4/17    What's a troll? - curious in Cali
        \_ Cool.  It never occured to me to start a trollfest over the
           definition of the word 'troll'.  Fellow troll, I salute you!
        \_ if you knew what you were doing, the thing above this is a troll.
           A message simply to get people to respond and argue, etc.
           just for the sake of it.
                \_ a stupid quesiton isn't REALLY a troll.  A troll is
                   somthing that pushes people's buttons that has been posted
                   purely for the joy of watching people makes fools out of
                   themselves by being full of justifed anger.   A troll
                   is NOT someone posting sometihng they legitimatly
                   care about, nor is a troll someone making some stupid
                   in-joke.
                \ Where is a good place to meet  asian chicks is a troll
           \_ flamebait a subcategory, different category, or synonym?
        \_ a troll can also mean a certain type of creature found in
           Dungeons and Dragon games.  I think trolls are also creatures
           guarding bridges, right?  (yes, this isn't probably what the
           original poster was looking for).
        \_ troll is also a fishing term, I believe, where you try to
           get the fish to bite.
           \_ Anytime you're using a pole and hook you're trying to get the fish
              to bite.  Trolling is when the boat is in motion, making the lure
              jump around like a living organism instead of a piece of plastic.
              \_ That should be trawling.
                \_ trolling is when you trawl with bits of computer geek guts
                   as bait
                   \_ no intelligent fish would take a bite on that...
                     \_ intelligent and fish are two words that don't mix
                        \_ what about flipper!? he's a dolphin! dolphin are
                        fishies!
                         \_ mammals.  flipper is a mammal... and a rapist
                            \_ Since when is flipper a rapist?  A racist, sure
                               we all know that but a rapist?
2000/4/17-18 [Industry/Startup] UID:18035 Activity:nil
4/17    Postscript on a discussion about stock options that occurred on the wall
        last week... At my company the options are nonqualifying (NQ), whereas
        at many others, they're ISO (Incentive Stock Options).  The tax
        ramifications of the two are different, hence my claim that it is best
        to wait as long as possible to exercise (which is correct for NQ).  Just
        trying to clear up any confusion I may have caused.  -emarkp
        \_ http://fairmark.com/execcomp/iso.htm
2000/4/17-18 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:18036 Activity:high
4/17    Why do you people think linux sucks (other than the fact that it
        is now popular and you are all reactionaries).  I have used BSD
        and linux both.  I like BSD slightly better except that there are
        no virtual terminals and i can't fix that myself  where as the
        lack of "wheel" I certainly can.  -user111
        \_ gee, I have 12 virtual terminals on my freebsd machine. you must suck
           \_ Yes, but i suck *well*.  So, i was wrong, both have
              Virt. Terminals my question stands.
         \_ Not trying to fan the flames you ignited but... Linux has this
           really terrible mushed-together feeling.  Like there's no real
           theme or overall concept behind where everything goes in the file
           system, how to configure the different parts of the OS, command
           line options aren't consistent, etc.  Mostly my beef with Linux is
           the apparent random nature of configuation.  OpenBSD and FreeBSD
           aren't like that (don't use netBSD).  They both have this really
           polished, well-thought-out feeling to them.  They're really
           consistent and I raraely find myself saying, "WTF did they do it
           like that for?" with a BSD machine.
        \_ yeah, it's completely obvious that mailing lists should go
           in "/csua/share/aliases.include", and that "/usr/local" should
           mean "the place you install system software".  Get a clue.  -tom
           \_ Were you born with that cactus up your ass or did it grow there
              later in a freak lab accident?  And no /csua/* isn't in anyway
              a BSD, Linux, or other standard.  It should have been
              /usr/local/csua, btw.  Don't use soda as an example of anything
              but a mish mash of both good and really terrible sysadmining.
              It shows.
2000/4/17-18 [Computer/HW/IO] UID:18037 Activity:moderate
4/17    My mouse pointer on my linux box (RH) keeps jumping to the top
        right hand corner no matter what i do! i changed it out (and even
        the keyboard) to no avail.  HELP. -user111
        \_ This means that XFree86 or gpm or both are misconfigured.
            \_ How do you configure gpm? (The problem manifests itself
                in gpm, X-win, and X-win after killing gpm)
        \_ X11 probably doesn't know what kind of mouse you have. Edit
           XF86Config or run XF86Setup or run xf86config. --Galen
2000/4/17-18 [Uncategorized] UID:18038 Activity:nil
4/16    Anyone know how to make philbiff not dance across the screen ?
        it makes it really hard to kill that way
        \_ Please tell me this is a troll.  Seriously, don't use the
           -mchammer option when you run it.  Also, you can kill it with the
           kill command and specifying its PID. -dans
           \_ does noone know what troll means anymore?
2000/4/17-18 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:18039 Activity:high
4/17    Agate appears to have dropped carrying a newsgroup I read (in the soc.*
        hierarchy), or at least is having problems.  Who can I contact to get
        this fixed (or at least find out that it won't be fixed)?
        \_ Agate doesn't support soc.queer.geeks.sexless
           \_ Boy that was weak.  Huh huh huh, you said "fixed" huh huh huh
                \_ The guy is obviously reading a sex group.  It was
                   appropriate.
                   \_ Um, no, the guy was me, and I was not reading a sex group.
                      It's in the soc.* hierarchy and is moderated.
        \_ news:ucb.news or mailto:usenet@agate
           \_ Thank you for the useful answer.
2000/4/17-18 [Uncategorized] UID:18040 Activity:kinda low
4/17    Need some enlightenment on philthis, philthat, and all the other
        phil utilities.  Who is Philip Nunez anyway?  Are these utilities
        generally damaging utilities or annoying utilities?
        \_ There is a strong need for philmotdedit.
           \_ RTFM. -phil
              \_ ]man phil
              No manual entry for phil
              ]man philedit
              No manual entry for philedit
              ]
              \_ not all phil commands have man pages
                 otherwise, man -M /csua/man philbiff
                \_ http://www.csua.berkeley.edu/~mikeh/consp.txt
       \_ What is the matrix?
                \_ If you need to ask, you don't know
2017/09/23 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/23    
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2000:April:17 Monday <Sunday, Tuesday>