Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2000:February:10 Thursday <Wednesday, Friday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2000/2/10 [Uncategorized] UID:17476 Activity:moderate
2/9     Any comments on Sun Ray 1 appliances?
        \_ I think it's a decent but not fantastic name for marketing
2000/2/10 [Recreation/Dating] UID:17477 Activity:high
2/9     Informal survey: I love
        -ED! ED! ED is the STANDARD! Informal survey.   2
        -yermom                   nightly backup
        -psb                      0
        -tom                      0
        -my large breasts         1
        -tjb                      1
        -"the greedy regents"   -33333
        -perky breasts            1
        -twm                      0
        -fvwm                     1
        -fvwm95                   0
        -afterstep                1
        -gnome                   -2
        -kde                     -1
        -enlightenment          -50
        -emacs                    2
        -vi                       1
        -pico                     0
        -jove                     0
        -Linux                    2
         -RedHat                  1
         -Debian                  2
         -SuSE                    0
         -Caldera                 0
         -Corel (must be over 18) 0
        -FreeBSD                  0
        -BeOS                     1
        -M$ Lose[NT,95,98,1900] -50
        -you                      1
2000/2/10-11 [Computer/SW/WWW/Browsers, Computer/SW/Unix] UID:17478 Activity:low
2/9     What exactly is HTTP Keep-Alive Connection?
        \_ HTTP1.0 made a TCP connection for every http file received.
           HTTP1.1 can use a keep-alive extension to the protocol to
           use the same TCP connection to grab more than one file.
        How do you tell a browser to extend it's normal request timeout,
        like when e-commerce servers process a credit card transaction?
        I am going to invoke something in my Java servlet that takes forever.
                \_ Wrong. 1.0 has keep-alive in the spec; 1.1 formalized it
                        \_ Wrong.  Keep-alive was NOT in the 1.0 spec, it
                           was added on by netscape & picked up by others
                           before 1.1 was finalized.
2000/2/10-11 [Industry/Startup] UID:17479 Activity:high
2/9     Someone recently asked me to join their net startup.  They've
        already got three programmers, an internal prototype with the
        requisite software and hardware, but only did the incorporation
        paperwork about five months ago.  I have their business plan and
        they seem to have pretty good connections.  The programmers are
        all grad students and the others are MBA students and they seem
        pretty knowledgable and cool.  If I don't put any money in, what
        can I, as a fourth programmer who's also a grad student, expect as
        fair compensation?  (I was thinking $40-60K as opposed to $60-80K
        for a corporation or better-funded startup, but I'm really not
        sure what I should get in terms of equity ...)
                \- IMHO, anyone giving you advice [as opposed to meta-advice
                like me] is deluded ... I dont think you can possibly give
                advice based on this info. I think the only way to decide what
                if fair is to compare your skills, contribution and risks to
                the other people and find out what they are getting compared
                to you. --psb
        \_ This company should have funding by now unless they don't for a
           particularly good reason. If they have funding, there is NO reason
           for the startup to pay full fair. As a graduating undergraduate,
           I'm looking between 55k and 80k. 60-65k seems to be about what most
           startups are offering. Being a grad student, you should be able
           to get about the same salary, perhaps with a bit more equity, but
           not necessarily. If they don't have funding, you probably won't
           be able to get paid for a while, and you should get a lot more
           equity. Maybe something like 0.2%-1.0%. If they have funding,
           expect between .03%-.25%.
        \_ psb nailed this one.
                \_  ppl seem *really* adverse to talking about stock options
                    that is too bad since so many are in the dark about this
                    sort of thing and often get screwed by the beancounters.
                    You have to ask "how many oustanding shares exist?"
                    You have to ask "how many outstanding shares exist?"
                    Then you ask what range the negotiator was thinking about.
                    Then you put out what you were thinking, in a way
                    where you don't come off as demanding, but also to
                    let him/her know you are not to be fux0red with.
                    Given the circumstances you describe (I don't know
                    what kind of work experience you have or how many
                    years)  I'd ask for .25 to 1%, with 2 to 4 year vesting
                    given that the company has 10 to 50 million
                    outstanding shares, which is about what I've gathered is an
                    industry standard.  Call me delusional. - tpc
                        \_ They won't give you 2 year vesting at a company
                           this young.  You'll be fully vested before they
                           go public.  Not a chance.  1%??  You better be
                           prepared to live on site for the next two years
                           for that.  This shit doesn't come free.  I'd rather
                           have my .20% and a life, thanks.  The odds are so
                           heavily stacked against a startup making it that
                           you'd have to be ice cold brain dead stupid to give
                           up your life for it in the slightest.  -startup guy
                           \_ For a fresh hire to get 1%... that's a lot. But
                              if you're a senior guy, you can get 1% and keep
                              a 40-50hr work week. Most fresh hires I know
                              get offered 10k shares but think that is really
                              good and don't even know how many are outstanding
                                \_ 1% is stunningly high.  If you're a senior
                                   guy and getting 1%, you're living on site.
                                   If you're not, the company is dead because
                                   they didn't give you 1% to sit on your ass.
                                   You're getting 1% to do 5 people's worth of
                                   work.  They can give that 1% to 5 or 10
                                   other people (.2% - .1% each) so no you're
                                   totally stupid if you think you're getting
                                   a huge number like that and going home at
                                   5pm.  They don't have enough options left
                                   to give to others if they give every 40
                                   hour/week slacker that much.  I've been
                                   there and done that in several startups and
                                   am a "senior guy".  I'd like to know the
                                   name of the funded startup that's giving
                                   away options like water in a rain storm.
        \_ This is all absurd!  When negotiating and asking for percentage
           of common stock, you gain very little.  You do not know what
           dilution will do to your share long term.  The only people that
           can demand PERCENTAGE ownership are the first X formative guys...
           If you want to get it right, you need plans, business case data,
           etc. and then take a guess at what anti-dilution various investors
           (a co-founder) - but let's say on the 1st floor (< 6-months-old)?
           will get...give it up.  Just take the number, the total authorized
           shares, and the outstanding.  Then ask for the current valuation,
           and the est. IPO price (you prolly can't get this either).  Then
           decide how much you would stand to make and pad actual salary
           accordingly.  Get it up front as cash or get in at the start for
           like 5-10% and ridiculously low salary if you believe in the
           product / can afford to play.
        \_ hello, reality check.  You guys are talking about 6-person,
           < 6-month-old startups, right?  I'm getting the impression
           people are referring to 20-50 person startups already past
           their first round of VC funding.  Is it really .1-.3% vested
           in (let's say) 3 years for a company that young?  Is that
           what's normal for being - not necessarily on the ground floor
           (a co-founder) - but on the "1st floor" (< 6-months-old)?
           \_ What's normal is how well you negotiate and nothing more.  The
              "industry standard" is a myth.
2000/2/10-11 [Computer/Networking] UID:17480 Activity:moderate
2/9     What would be the most efficient way to check if a DNS server is
        still up (i.e. still resolving names)?  Does nslookup help?
        \_ nslookup your_dns_server.
                \- you need to define exactly what you want to test. i mean
                you can do anythign from a ping, to seeing if someone answers
                port 53 to doing a zone xfer. i would just do a zone xfer if
                allowed and see if it seems to be about the right size.
                [i am assuming you mean from a remote machine] --psb
                \_ The guy is having trouble with nslookup.  You want him to
                   do a zone xfer?  He'll be happy when nslookup returns.
        \_ To just make sure the daemon is running and getting your queries:
           "dig version.bind chaos txt". *Then* start making
           sure it can answer queries on real domains.
        \_ ;; ANSWER SECTION:
           VERSION.BIND.           0S CHAOS TXT    "Surely you must be joking"
           Real admins use protection.
                \_ Any answer means the name server is working,  the actual
                   string reported is irrelevant in this case.  Real admins
                   know how to read what they're replying to.
2000/2/10-11 [Uncategorized] UID:17481 Activity:kinda low
2/10    If jwz buys DNA, will they still have Spencers on Sat??
        \_ Spencer stopped doing Spencer's a long time ago.
        \_ please explain...
2000/2/10-11 [Recreation/Dating] UID:17482 Activity:insanely high
2/9     I thought sparky was in prison or something for being the anti-gubmint
        radical rebel without a clue that he is, yet the last logs show kewl
        b0y logging in almost everyday.  Escaped and found a floppy to boot
        \_ he smuggled a palm and a ricochet up his ass
        \_ Sparky and others are in jail.  I was detained and released cuz
           I am an 31337 h4x0r k1d and I used pgpdisk and a paper shredder
           so there was no evidence to arrest me.  Anyways, fuck all yall.
           Me and moutchkine are going to go back to getting little 15
           year old raver/goth chix high on meth and taping them having lesbian
           sex.  you may now return to your regularly scheduled program,
           wage slaves.  -sky
           wage slaves.  -sparky
                   \_ I am a slave to the glass dick.  -sky
                \_ are you a slave to not being a slave?
                   \_ I am a slave to the glass dick.  -sparky
                \_ The question is still open how do I fuck sky's girlfriend?
                        \_ Not really.  You're just a dick.  Not glass.  Not
                           a slave.  Just a dick.
                \_ The question is still open how do I fuck sparky's girlfriend?
                   \_ proposition her with a more lucrative illegal porn
                         OPPRESSION!!!  -sky
                        \_ sky couldn't have written this about himself. It's
                      moneymaking scheme.
                   \_ She sure is hot.  Wonder why she ever fell for him.
                      \_ It must have been my 12" dick of WHITE MALE
                         OPPRESSION!!!  -sparky
                        \_ sparky couldn't have written this about himself. It's
                           too stupid even for him.
                        \_ He just said: 'high on meth and...'  A loser like
                           that couldn't get a chick like that without
                           drugging her.
                           \_ She stayed even after the meth wore off?  Gee, I
                                   and anonymous fashion. -sky
                                      \_ Amen!  Tell 'em brutha jesus! -sky
                              should work harder on becoming a loser then.
                                \_ Yeah, I can't believe it myself, with
                                   people like you alive and making your
                                   remarkable magnanimity available for all
                                   the csua to see, but in an elegantly subtle
                                         crack at responding to that one.  -sky
                                   and anonymous fashion. -sparky
                                   \_ Uh oh.  It was anonymous.  Therefore it
                                         months of sky slandering in the motd,
                                      must be false.  Uhm... no.  If that's
                                      your best reply, stay off the motd and
                   Either I am hated by a bunch of wussy netstalkers or
                                         recognize^(*&#$^*&^!!  -sky
                   hands.  It is my deam that, one day, I may have the
                   honor of joining the ranks of geek infamy alongside trevor
                   and dickylee.  -sky
                                      the crack pipe.
                                      \_ ok, u got me.  I let seano have a
                                   It worked for sky.
                                         crack at responding to that one.
                                         But yeah, over the last several
                                           be driving that bitch.  -sky
                                           \_ Again, this can't be sky.  This
                                         months of sparky slandering in the motd,
                                              pretending to be sky.  It's bad
                                         the only person to actually sign a
                                         post was tom.  F00lz best
                                         recognize^(*&#$^*&^!!  -sparky
                                         \_ I signed a very eloquent
                                            sparky slander but it got deleted
                                            by seano.  -John
                                \_ Nah, just download some asian chik pic off
                                   the net and say she's your gf.  Much easier.
                                   It worked for sparky.
                                   \_ You ain't nothin' but a PLAYA HATA!
                                        \_ Just cuz he got a car he want to
                                           be driving that bitch.  -sparky
                                           \_ Again, this can't be sparky.  This
                                              is too embarassing.  Please stop
                                              pretending to be sparky.  It's bad
                                              enough with only him being him.
                                              \_  Are you broke?  Do bitches
                                                  look at you like some kind
                                                  of joke?

                                                  csua'r: Straight up!

                                                  What you need is a PHD.

                                                  csua'r: Playa Hata's Degree?
                                           tone.  Mother, is that you?  -sky
                                                          Ah hell yeah!
                                                          [Next week]
                                                          I may be ugly, least
                                                          I ain't got no money,

                   alongside trevor and dickylee.  -sky
                        \_ Foolz best back on up! -sky #1 fan
                                        \_ LOL!  Yeah whatever.  Thanks for
                                           making me laugh, though.
                                   \_ Really!?  He even made up a story of how
                           \_ So Dr. Tweakaseti....we meet at last.
                                      he picked her up.  Gee.
                                        \_ It was an http GET request.
                              hosers think because you are all persona
                              non-grata, 2) because I dont have some feeble
                                        \_ I send myself fake letters and take
                              to defend every one of your weak accusations, and
                                           fake pictures and all the times i
                              all your no-life anklenbiters.
                                           pretend i am talking to her on the
                           him?  sky isn't smart enough to play the part.
                                           phone i am just talking to a dial
                                           tone.  Mother, is that you?  -sparky
                                                \_ Drugs can do that to you.
                \_ Wow!  20 flames and not one person signed their name.
                   Either I am hated by a bunch of wussy girlie-men or
                   one of you is way psycho and has too much time on your
                   one free hand.  Some day, if fortune smiles upon me, maybe
                   I will be lucky enough to join the ranks of geek infamy
                   alongside trevor and dickylee.  -sparky
                        \_ Foolz best back on up! -sparky #1 fan
                        \_ Trevor is smarter than you and dickylee had a
                           certain special something.  You're such the current
                           dork of the week.  Either of them would have easily
                           provided page after page of amusing babble both
                           attacking others and defending themself (sort of)
                           with much better stuff than "You're all anon so you
                           just suck!@!@!111".  I thought you'd be more fun but
                              hope to have.  -sky
                           even the best of us get it wrong sometimes.  You're
                           just a dull witted sap.  Where's Trevor when I need
                           him?  sparky isn't smart enough to play the part.
                           \_ So Dr. Tweakaseti....we meet at last.  Just
                              goes to show, you never really know who your
                              friends are.  You are here-forth all declared
                              persona non-grata.

                              I don't write pages and pages of babble defending
                              myself because 1) I don't give a fuck what u
                              hosers think, 2) because I dont have some feeble
                              insecurity which would make me feel the need
                              to defend every one of your weak accusations
                              so you all think I am so very very very kewl, and
                              3) I am too busy having a life to keep up with
                              all you pissant no-life anklenbiters.  As to my
                              intelligence, who the fuck are you to say?  Lack
                              of judgement I confess, but I lost more
                              brain cells sniffing the crack of your mom's
                              hairy lice infested anus than you can ever
                              hope to have.  -sparky
2000/2/10-11 [Computer/SW] UID:17483 Activity:high
2/10    Computer Science: For the love of it?  Or for the money?
        \_ For the love of AHGLHAGULHALUGLUGHALUGHL
        \_ For the money.  If you want to code for free and release source
           to make my life easier, I'm not going to complain.  Thanks for
           the assist.
        \_ What do you mean by computer science?
                \_ software engineering or research in CS
                   \_ Research CS and software engineering
                      are both interesting when done on one's own time,
                      at one's own pace.  They are both boring and/or
                      stressful when done for someone else at someone else's
                        \_ you got that right.  Unfortunately, most jobs,
                                in CS, you are told what to do and what
                                time schedule to do it in.
                           \_ So, to answer the question, I "do computer
                              science" for fun in my spare time, and
                              for money on the job.  I don't think it's
                              possible to do better except in rare cases.
                \_ For the love of ED! ED IS THE ANSWER!
2000/2/10-11 [Uncategorized] UID:17484 Activity:nil
2/10    What's with the recent hacker/Amazon talk?  Can anyone point me
        to an URL that describes this incident?           - clueless
        \_ See for
           a list of news articles.
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2000:February:10 Thursday <Wednesday, Friday>