Berkeley CSUA MOTD:1999:December:03 Friday <Thursday, Saturday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
1999/12/3-7 [Uncategorized] UID:16993 Activity:nil
12/02   GM.  Mon 6, 1500 Hrs 337 Soda or Woz.
1999/12/3 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:16994 Activity:high
12/2    Can someone recommend a mail reader that accomodates cc'ing to
        newsgroups, file attachments, and keeping copies of sent-mail
        that is not pine? Thanks in advance.
        \_ mh.
           \_ mh + munpack + procmail
                \_ mutt.  why the hell would you want to "cc to newsgroups"
                   \_ why the hell not?
                      by cc'ing to newsgroups I meant some mail
                      reader that would have a field or option of sending
                      a copy of mail to newsgroups.  Why would I want to
                      do this? I frequently send emails to my mailing
                      lists and like to keep copies of announcements on
                      my newsgroups.  Think about it.
1999/12/3 [Uncategorized] UID:16995 Activity:nil 66%like:17750
12/2    Is the JDK installed on soda?
        \_ 'locate javac'
           \_ Thanks!  Had completely forgotton about 'locate'.
1999/12/3 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, ERROR, uid:16996, category id '18005#4.705' has no name! , ] UID:16996 Activity:low
12/2    WTO: About as unbiased a view as you're likely to see from any media
        outlet.  I don't fully agree with everything said in this article but
        this is the best I've seen:
        \_ - from your local bleeding
                                             heart liberal
        \_ all that article told me was that the WTO won't get anything done
           because everyone hates each other
                \_ I posted it as an overview for those here here have made it
                   clear they don't know anything about the WTO.
                \-i fyou want good perspective you get it rfom reading multiple
                srcs. if you think you can find an unbiased single src, you are
                deluding yourself. the article didnt say anything stupid but
                it didnt say much interesting stuff either. one this i respect
                about the economist is they have a position and this make
                arguments ... as opposed to pretending to rpesent "objective
                facts". --psb
                \_ I am a big fan of the Economist too.  However, I think
                   they miss-judged and underestimated Clinton.  Also,
                   they miss-judged and underestimated US technology led
                   economy, at least till now.  For that, I would have to
                   say that they are not as good as they used to be.
                \_ I didn't say it was unbiased.  I didn't say it was
                   captivating.  It's exactly what I was looking for: an
                   easy to read description of what the WTO is about without
                   going into fits of PR spew.  It's "reasonably" unbiased.
                \_ The Economist once provided insightful economic and
                   political analysis difficult to find outside of research
                   journals.  However, over the past few years its gone soft,
                   choosing instead to compete with the likes of Time and
                   Newsweek.  It's easy to lose respect for an English owned,
                   U.S. bashing magazine whose lead story
                   for well over the past year has been that the U.S.
                   economy is overheated and going to crash.  Anyways,
                   if they run the story enough times eventually they'll
                   be right.   DOWN WITH THE WTO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
1999/12/3 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA] UID:16997 Activity:kinda low
12/2    Is the politburo on crack?  a 3PM meeting?  what the hell?
        \_ What's wrong with a 3PM meeting?
1999/12/3-5 [Computer/SW/OS/Solaris, Computer/SW/OS/OsX] UID:16998 Activity:moderate
12/3    So I'm using a solaris box trying to look at some info on X-files
        at  What do I get?  This shit:

        You are running on a platform other than a PC or a Macintosh. Unless
        you run on one of these platforms, you will be unable to access

        How stupid can they get?  What do they gain by this bullshit?
        \_ now now, Fox has a lot of quality programming.
        \_ Yeah, you'd think they'd be aware of the fact that their target
           audience is full of UNIX-using geekboys.  Better send Fox a
           warning note, before they lose them all to some new Star Trek
           thing or RPGs, or something.
           \_ Uh huh... like your email note is going to anyone who cares.
        \_ Look, you're a stupid unix geek and are roughly 0.0001% of the TV
           market.  It's better for them to use some cool flashy stuff that
           the kids will like than make it so primitive a lynx using geekoid
           like you can get the latest Buffy info.
                \_  WHEN *nix ATTACK, next on fox at 11
        \_ but their only requirements are satisfiable by, e.g. Linux
              (Flash and Real). They're just being silly.
1999/12/3-6 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA] UID:16999 Activity:nil
12/3    www.csua/library/patrons.txt.old
        Return your CSUA library books!  Overdue books from 1995?
        Sheesh.  That's really inconsiderate to the other members.
        \_ I know in my case (and probably lots of other people's)
           I returned those books and just forgot to cross off my name
                \_ Sure, sure....
1999/12/3 [Transportation/Car] UID:17000 Activity:high
12/3    Is the totally new (and affordable) Toyota Echo technically the same
        as the old and crappy Toyota Tercel?
        \_ Who cares?  It's still overpriced, and fucking ugly to boot.
           RIDE BIKE!
        \_ USE LINUX!
        \_ What's the standard Toyota?
                \_ ED is the standard!
1999/12/3-5 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:17001 Activity:very high
12/3    Does anyone really like their build management, source code control
        software they use for their company/project?
        \_ I like Perforce.  No build management;
           it's just source control.  You might also check out BitKeeper. --pld
        \_ I used CVS for source code control when I was working.  Now
           that I'm in grad chool I still use it.  CVS is simple, stable,
           powerful, easy to use, and the source is available.  I
           especially like the features which allow people on different
           machines to share projects over the internet.  -emin
        \_ MS Source Safe.  Fully compatible.
           \_ MS VSS is a load of crap even by Microsoft standards.  The only
              reason to use it is that you don't know any better.
              \_ We ditched CVS for MS Source Safe because CVS is a load
                 of crap. Source Safe is much much better.
                 \_ We ditched MS Source Safe for Perforce because SS is a
                    load of crap (it was into things like losing files and
                    corrupting change history databases).  Perforce is much
                    much better, nyeah.
                    \_ user error.
                       \_ Uh, no.  The "we" was a corporate we -- the loss and
                          corruption happened over a number of SS installations
                          within my company.  Each SS install had its own
                          dedicated machine and admin (they were supporting
                          developers on multi-hundred-million-dollar products;
                          we didn't just hire up some dope-smokin' dropout
                          from the mailroom and start up source control on a
                          spare P-66).  SS sucks rocks.  The only user error
                          was getting it in the first place.  The groups that
                          were using Perforce or ClearCase from the start had
                          none of these problems.
                          \_ Don't believe it.  Sorry, but I think you're full
                             of crap.  SS is the best.  The idea that you had
                             20+ machines and 20+ admins to go with them makes
                             the rest of your story ring false.  No one does
                             that.  No one with any talent would take a SS
                             admin of *one* machine as a full time job.
                             \_ Hello, have you ever heard of someone doing CM?
                                Large companies often have at LEAST one CM
                                person per project.
                                \_ And reading the followup below, we can see
                                   that I was correct and you're a clueless
                                   fuck.  Thank you for playing, come again
                                   soon.  Box of Rice A Roni on the way out.
                                   \_ Why not just admit you have no idea what
                                      a CM person does?   CM's are relengs
                                      you dumbass.
                                      \_ Uh because I do?  Gee, I'm sure what
                                         you know from your one employer is
                                         the only way it could be everywhere.
                                         \_ Someone says that they had an admin

        \_ Yes.
                                            doing CM stuff per project.  Your
                                            response was that is obviously
                                            false.  WELL GUESS WHAT!  MOST BIG
                                            COMPANIES HAVE AT LEAST 1 CM i
                                            PER PROJECT.
                                            \_ Heard you without the yelling.
                                               You're still wrong no matter
                                               how many CAPS you use.  And
                                               even if you were right (you're
                                               not), a BIG COMPANY doing a
                                               thing doesn't make that a smart
                                               thing.  And there aren't that
                                               many talented people around
                                               willing to sit on their asses
                                               all day doing CM.  It's a dope
                                               smoker job.
                                               \_ I never said it was smart.
                                                  Just that it is.  And it is
                                                  (true that is)
                                                  \_ Yeah whatever. yawn.
                             \_ Sorry, I was being inaccurate; these people
                                were releng types, so they had duties beyond
                                purely being SS admins.  But my point was that
                                the problem was chronic to SS installs across
                                the company, not a case of SS being screwed up
                                by one bonehead.  But whatever; use what you're
                                happy with.  Hope you keep backups.  Don't be
                                surprised when SS fucks you over, should your
                                projects ever grow beyond the two-guys-in-a-
                                garage point to something serious and large-
                                \_ They're serious, they're big, they're not
                                   \_ How big (how many files/lines of code/
                                      size in KB/MB of files under source
                                      control)?  How many developers do you
                                      have contributing to your projects?
                                        \_ multi-hundred-million-dollar
                                           projects.  And you?  Some time in
                                           the XCF if you're lucky?
        \_ What about Clearcase; Continuus (Remedy?); SCCS; RCS
           \_ Clearcase is expensive and has excessive hardware requirements.
              If you don't know why RCS won't cut it, you shouldn't be making
              the decision.
              \_ Clearcase is from Rational (rational bought PureAtria recently
                 I think).  When I first started using it, I hated it.  Now I
                 think it's wonderful.  The GUI portion is pretty weak on the
                 Unix side, but is fabulous on NT.
           \_ Clearcase ROCKS!!!!
        \_ I like ENVY from OTI. It is a fantastic version control tool and
           source code repository. It's basically an object database that
           stores every version of every method, class, package, application
           you create.  It, because of integration with the tools vendors,
           it is totally transparent (never need to manually checkin/out).
           Plus, it has a nice suite of tools for doing diffs/merging forks
           of methods/classes/packages/applications.  Works for Smalltalk
           and Java.
           \_ yeah yeah that's nice, whatever, I use RCS.
        \_ use PRCS.-ali
        \_ Yes.  And No.
        \_ And sometimes maybe.
1999/12/3-4 [Uncategorized] UID:17002 Activity:nil
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:1999:December:03 Friday <Thursday, Saturday>