Berkeley CSUA MOTD:1999:October:27 Wednesday <Tuesday, Thursday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
1999/10/27 [Computer/SW/RevisionControl] UID:16775 Activity:kinda low
10/26   Whoever wrote Clearcase was a piece of dumb shit. The thing is
        so damn not scalable and is the source of our problem 75% of the
        time. PureAtria should be shot dead.
        \_ No.  The people at your place who chose it are to blame.
1999/10/27-11/9 [Uncategorized] UID:16776 Activity:nil
1999/10/27 [Uncategorized] UID:16777 Activity:nil
10/26   sam says
1999/10/27-28 [Computer/SW/OS/Windows] UID:16778 Activity:moderate
10/27   Does the "verify" command in NT Command Prompt actually do anything?
        I remember in MS-DOS, "verify" does slow down copying files to
        floppies, so I guess it was doing verification.  However, I just tried
        copying 29 files to an empty floppy in NT with "verify off" and
        "verify on", and both take the same amount of time, which seems odd.
        \_ do not trust verify or /v, in any incarnation of an MS OS
           \_ And it's not like floppy disks are reliable media, anyway.
1999/10/27-29 [Computer/HW/CPU, Computer/HW/Drives] UID:16779 Activity:high
10/27   I want to buy a LINUX box.  I don't need (or want) windows.
        Any suggestions on online companies which sell LINUX boxes?
        I could just use gateway or dell, but they charge me for windows
        and the last time my company ordered something from Dell it had
        some hardware that wasn't well supported by LINUX.  Thanks.
        \_ Dell sells machines preloaded with Linux these days.
        \_  perhaps a little more high-end than most dells
           but comes functional w/ linux.  except they give you the normal
           stupid soundcard that only does half-duplex w/ linux drivers,
           so mbone multiconferencing doesn't work.
           \_ I checked out VA Research, but for their prices I might
              as well order from CompuUSA which is cheaper.
              \_ Last time I checked CompUSA, they were selling Compaqs,
                 PackardBells and HPs. I don't know about HPs, but
                 Compaq Presarios and PackardHells are utter pieces of
                 crap and have problems even running windows, good luck
                 installing Linux one of those.. Seriously, though, check
                 out Micron and Dell websites, they make good systems
                 usually or build your own ..
        \_ If you're running a linux box why are you paying more for someone
           to pre-assembly it in a configuration that you won't be entirely
           happy with?  It is *very* easy to assemble a pc from parts today.
           You'll get *exactly* what you want and not pay a dime to M$.
           \_ Ok.  If it is that easy maybe I'll try it.  Do you have
              any suggestions on where to buy the various pieces and
              how to put them together?  For example, when you buy a
              motherboard and a hard drive, does either one come with a
              manual telling you how to get them to work together? I'd
              be happy to RTFM if I knew how to get my hands on one, but
              "man motherboard" doesn't seem to work =).
                \_ The problem with building your own machine is troubleshooting
                   it.  A computer builder can at least make sure all the parts
                   work before giving you the machine.  I like to work with
                   Central Computer:  they'll build a machine to order for
                   you, and you can ask 'em not to install Windoze.  Another
                   plus is you can go bring stuff back in person, if anything
                   is defective.  --PeterM
              \_ The stuff all comes with manuals.  Mostly it's in English.
                 Pretty much each thing only fits one place in one way.  The
                 red line on the HD (and floppy) data cable is pin #1.  Do
                 it in a place with lots of light.  It's pretty hard to totally
                 fuck up, but it may take an afternoon on your first time out.
                 Unless you've got money to burn and your time is incredibly
                 precious (or you're buying in bulk for a company), the self-
                 assembly thing is always a good bet.  Do some price checks on
                 the net for the hardware/pieces you're looking for.  Buy stuff
                 like the CPU/MB last.  By the time you figure out what you
                 want for the rest of the system, cpu prices will have dropped
              \_ You should try  They have a fairly
                 broad selection of components at reasonable prices.
                 Certainly, you would be able to build a computer there.
              \_ The first time is hard for everyone.  You should do your
                 research, but here's a list to start you out.
                 ABIT BE6 motherboard           Celeron 466 PPGA + "slocket"
                 IBM 9.1 GB UDMA/66 IDE HD        adapter + PPGA fan
                 Intel i740 video card          Creative Labs OEM 48x CD-ROM
                 Yamaha YMF724 PCI sound        Side-paneled ATX mini-mid
                   card                           case
                 3Com ISA 56K Sportser          Linux Mandrake 6.1 or
                 Yamaha YMF724 PCI sound        ATX mini-mid case with side
                   card                           panels
                 3Com ISA 56K Sportser          Linux-Mandrake 6.1 or
                                                  6.5 PowerPack
                 Get this sucker working first and then go SCSI or whatever
                 ya want. -jctwu
                 \_ ABIT BE6-2.  i740 is trash.  I'm pretty sure the ABIT is
                    an ATA/33 MB so the ATA/66 is a waste.  Don't get ISA
                    cards for anything.  What you should really do is decide
                    how much you feel like pissing away on a computer and get
                    the most bang for the buck in areas where you need it most,
                    be it video, sound, storage, cpu speed, etc.  You may find
                    you don't even want certain things such as a soundcard or
                    modem if you're building a networked server box.
                    \_ the BE6-2 has one ISA slot.  Both BE6's support
                       UDMA/66.  The speed gain from not having any ISA cards
                       sounds reasonable, but is unproven, and I'd choose
                       2 ISA slots today.  As for modem and sound card,
                       I'm not assuming the reader is so dumb to think they're
                       required cards.  Also, I've had good experience
                       with the BE6 personally; have you had the same with
                       the BE6-2?  The i740 is $35; I've got 3, and they all
                       work fine.  Please tell me why it's trash.  It's hard
                       to find a well-supported accelerated video card, but
                       I know RH Linux 6.1 supports it.  As for deciding on
                       bang for the buck, that sounds all well and reasonable
                       so why am I providing the list above?  Because they
                       all work with Linux, are fully tested, are cheap,
                       all work with Linux, are tested, are cheap,
                       and are a good starting point when you could be
                       all work with Linux, are tested, cheap, and
                       are a good starting point when you could be
                       buying high-powered stuff (a new video card) that
                       doesn't have driver support. -jctwu
           \_ go to and get a preconfigured solaris x86 box
              instead :-)
                \_ Uh huh... "Quick!  Spend big bucks on the slowest *nix
                   available!"  I'd rather screw yermom.
                             \_ momma always says, "sometimes, slower
                                is better". Her customers agree!
                        \_ Slow on cheap machines.  Faster & more stable
                           than linux on more expensive stuff (SCSI, MP, etc.)
                           \_ It's Solaris x86.  I could run anything really
                              fast on "faster & more stable" hardware. sheesh.
                \_ consider the MICROSTAR MS6120 440BX motherboard, does dual
                   \_ heck, consider the ABIT BP6.  Does dual Celerons w/o
                      weird mods.  A friend of mine set up NT with it last
                      week and it works fine on NT -jctwu
           \_ try <DEAD><DEAD> .  local, great prices on celeron
              + motherboard.
          \_ computer shows have great bargains..
             they have Oakland shows every month or so...
        \_ or walk over to shattuck ave.
           \_ those assholes are the biggest jackasses in the world.  pay
              big bucks to have people treat you like shit.  just go to the
              oakland computer show.  anything is better than that garbage.
              \_ whine whine, bitch bitch.
           \_ Do not go to hitech-usa.
           \_ Dell also sells machines for more than they're worth
        \_ Buy parts and assemble.
        \_ Find someone we don't know about.
        \_ Figure out what hardware you want, then spec it out and have
           someone like Central Computer build it. It generally doesn't
           cost any more than buying the parts and building it yourself,
           and they'll burn it in for you and make sure it boots. Most
           of the small local places that will configure you machines
           will not charge you for Windows if you don't want it.
        \_ Maybe you should consider FREEBSD or MACOS or another
           ALLCAPS operating system.
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:1999:October:27 Wednesday <Tuesday, Thursday>