Berkeley CSUA MOTD:1999:October:06 Wednesday <Tuesday, Thursday>
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1999/10/6-8 [Reference/Law/Court, Computer/SW/Graphics] UID:16669 Activity:very high
10/5    Is GIF pronounced as "jif" or "ghif"?
        \_ my officemate says "jif" is east coast while "ghif" is s west coast
        \_ Depends.  Are you a retard or a normal person?
          \_ You are retard
                \_ You are retard, me am not retard, you am big dummyheaded!!
          \_ You are a retard.
        \_ Yes.
          \_ don't know how to answer a question?
                \_ The answer is valid.  To go back to second grade and
                   answer in a complete sentence, "Yes, GIF is pronounced
                   as either 'jif' or 'ghif'.  Some people say it the first
                   way, others the second, neither is 'more correct' than the
                   other."
        \_ say jif.  ghif sounds gay.
               to steal other people's work.
                \_ no, it's just the opposite.
        \_ I usually pronounce it as "that obsolete, poorly-compressed,
            limited colormap, patent encumbered, joke of a format that
            should be avoided whenever possible"
            \_ That's pretty long-winded for a three-letter word.
            \_ It is not patent encumbered.  Unisys is not going to sue your
               soda home page into bankruptcy for violating their patent or
               send you a bill for $5000.  And in general, there's nothing
               to steal other people's wor
               wrong with patents.  99% of the anti-patent crowd never did a
               god damned thing worthy of one, so no shit they want the right
               to steal other people's work.
                \_ Second that
                \_ I am staunchly anti-software-patent, and I have done
                   several things that were patentable.  In fact my newest
                   invention is called "Device Enabling Pro-Software-Patent
                   Motd Posters to Bite Me".  -blojo
                   \_ If you didn't get a patent, how do you know it was
                      patentable?  You wouldn't be the first to think he was
                      a Eureka! super genius but turn out to be just another
                      MOTD editing fool.
                      \_ "If you have to ask, you don't know."  I am a
                         research programmer in the field of 3D graphics
                         and computational geometry.  I spend 100% of my
                         time thinking up systems that are new, and then
                         trying them out.  When you're In The Zone of
                         knowing all the current research, and adding to it,
                         it is generally easy to know what is patentable
                         and what is lame.      -blojo
                         \_ I know you're Mr. Graphics.  That doesn't make you
                            super foo.  You're still not a lawyer.
                            a patent lawyer.  I easily grant your graphics
                            super fu.  You're still not a lawyer.
                            \_ The point was, that if you're aware of the
                               state of the art, and you know what was patented
                               in the past given the state of the art at that
                               time, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to
                               figure out roughly what has a good chance of
                           far superior math skills to you".
                               being a defendable patent.  Sure, you
                               might be a little off here and there, but you
                               pretty much know.    -blojo
                                \_ You're not a lawyer, but you play one on
                                   the motd.  If it was that easy, why are
                                   all those engineers bothering to go to law
                                   school to retrain as patent lawyers?  They
                                   should just go take the bar exam right off
                                   since it doesn't take a rocket scientist.
                                   It does take a lawyer, though.
                                   \_ well if they had a bar exam to become a
                                      patent lawyer in that narrow field, maybe.
                                      but they dont,  you have to be a full
                                      lawyer to be a patent lawyer, and so you
                                      have to take the full bar exam. Hence
                                      the need to waste time with law school.
                                   \_ I think you're a little confused about
                                      the patent process.  Patent lawyers
                                      do not come up with ideas of what to
                                      patent.  The engineers come to them, and
                                      they say "Help me patent this."  It
                                      costs significant dollars to see a
                                      patent through, so you don't do it unless
                                      you're pretty sure it's viable.  Also,
                                      who are these armies of engineers
                                      retraining as patent lawyers of whom
                                      you speak?  I don't know any of them.
                                      Sounds anecdotal to me.    -blojo
            \_ I thought Compuserve came up with the format?
               \_ You people have gif and jpeg confused.
                \_ Compuserve developed the GIF format using the LZW
                   compression method Unisys developed & patented.
                   (Note to pro-patent-mongers above:  Unisys only did
                    the W in LZW - the original LZ work was done elsewhere
                    and merely extended by Unisys, but their patent allows
                    them to profit off the work of others.)
                   \_ "allows them to profit off the work of others": Hello?
                      Know ye nothing, young jedi knight?  They're only allowed
                      to profit from their useful and original extensions to
                      another's work, aka "their own work".  I see nothing
                      wrong with that.  Anyone not using their extension owes
                      them nothing and no one is required to do so.  In any
                      event, a patent doesn't last forever.  Old patents are
                      17 years from the time of issue.  New patents are 20
                      years from the time of first application filing.
                   \_ What is the W in LZW?  I know how Lempel-Ziv
                      compression works, but I never learned about W. -emin
                        \_ The "W" is (W)oman.  As in "Woman of Power with
                           far superior math skills than you".
                           \_ The "W" is (W)1MM1N!!1!  As in "D00D, 1 G0TTA
                              1NV3NT TH1Z GRAPH1KZ F0RMAT S0 1 KAN SHAR3
                              P1KS UV N3KK1D W1MM1N W1TH MY K0MPUT3R
                              FR13NDZ!!!!1!!!!"
                                \_ Oh yeah, you're right.  Tpyo, sorry.
              \_ Getting back to the original post, "gif" is pronounced
               "jif."  The "g"  before "i" grammar rule says that the
               "g"  picks up a "j" sound.  Yup..."ghif" sounds kinda
               gay,  please don't use that in public.  -- swings
               \_ I wonder who's getting me gifts (pronounced "jifts"
               according to the above post) for my birthday this month?  I
               use (ghift) in public all the time and I sound way too cool.
               \_ Also "giant" vs "giddy".  Both common English words that
                  somehow violate this mysterious "g before i rule".  There
                  are numerous counter examples to this so called rule.  But
                  really what can one expect from the motd anyway?
               \_"g" before "i" generally applies when in doubt.  my goodness
                   EECS people always have to have the last word, eh?
                \_ i think words with "g" pronounced as a soft "j" sound
                   before "i" are few and far between.  there is no such rule.
                   it makes sense intuitively to me to pronounce it as a hard
                   "g".  i can't understand why you'd want to pronounce gif
                   like jif.   it's not a peanut butter for god's sake.   -lila
                \_ It really doesn't matter!  People who pronounce it
                   "ghif" are probably used to the "gift" idea; people who
                   pronounce it "jif" either think there's that rule to
                   pronunciation, or just like the alliteration that you'd
                   get with "jif" and "jaypeg".
                   \_   well of course it doesn't matter.  since when
                        did we debate anything of import on the motd?   -lila
1999/10/6-8 [Uncategorized] UID:16670 Activity:nil
10/6    Anyone noticing the ucb.* newgroups beind dominated now by stupid
        porn site ads?
        \_ not if you read them on agate, which denies posts to ucb.* from
           outside berkeley.  -tom
        \_ No.  I don't read that crap.
1999/10/6-8 [Computer/SW/Mail, Computer/SW/Security] UID:16671 Activity:high
10/6    What is the reason for ssh being suid root?
        \_ ssh is setuid root for .shosts authentication.  The client
           connects to the server, proves its identity using its host
           key, and then sends your username to the server.  You can't
           write a fake client that sends someone else's username because
           the client connects from a reserved port (that's why it has
           to be setuid root).  You can't run a fake client as root on
           your own linux box because you don't have the real client's
           host key.
           make a fake client that sends someone else's username because
           the host key is only readable by root.

           If you don't use .shosts authentication, your ssh client does
           not need to be setuid.  --mconst
                \_ The remote server connects back to check or what?  I don't
                   see how your description prevents me from hacking my own
                   client and handing them my own user generated server key.
                        \_ It checks against it's own list of known keys
                           (in the system directory or the user's directory)
                           \_ Huh?  Waitasec... so I hack my own client to
                              return a key I've created which I'm falsely
                              telling the server is a valid key for my host.
                              How does it know I haven't made a hacked client?
                              There's too many pronouns floating around
                              confusing me.  Thanks.
                                \_ The server only trusts hosts it's talked to
                                   before and saves their public keys for
                                   future reference.  The only way to spoof
                                   that is break into the client and find it's
                                   private key (which is only readable by root
                                   on Unix boxes so non-root people can't do
                                   evil shit with it).
                                   \_ Hmmm.. ok.. but what if the only prior
                                      server contact was with my hacked client?
                                        \_ Then the user was a moron if they
                                           added your hacked client's key &
                                           hostname to their .shosts
                        \_ the server /etc/known_hosts file is maintained
                           by the sysadmin.  sshd won't add new hosts to it.
                                \_ Ok, got that.  I still don't see why I can't
                                   hack my own client to feed all bad info to
                                   the remote server from first contact to
                                   potential security violation.  If my client
                                   is the only source of info for the remote
                                   server and I've hacked my client to send
                                   false data, how does the other side know?
                                        \_ it doesn't, but it has no reason
                                           to care either.  You only get to
                                           login if your host in the .shosts
                                           and your key matches what the
                                           server thinks your host key is.
                                           Otherwise you lose.
1999/10/6-9 [Computer/SW/Security] UID:16672 Activity:nil
10/6    When I am logged in via SSH, is all the data I type encrypted and
        safe from sniffing, or just the login/password pair?
        \_ All is encrypted using 3DES
        \_ Oh boy, not RedHat again.  Try linuxconf or netcfg or
           appropriate module in /lib/modules/2.2.5/net
           \_ and people who write dumb shit like this would be taken out
              and beaten to death as the crowds cheer?
1999/10/6 [Computer/SW/Mail] UID:16673 Activity:high
10/6    Can anyone tell me where the file is that dictates which programs
        sendmail can run?
        \_ sendmail can run just about anything, unless, of course, you have
           smrsh built in.
           \_Evidently, my redhat linux box came with smrsh built in but
             (annoyingly) without a MAN page!  Can someone direct me to a
             redhat appropriate man page for it (the one on soda has the
             the wrong paths - among other things) Or better yet, just
             tell me what i have to do to it to add a program.
1999/10/6 [Recreation/Dating] UID:16674 Activity:nil
10/6    Friend is getting married. Should I just be polite and
        congratulate him, or give him my condolences?   -guy
        \_ Is this the same friend as mine? Initials AJS
        \_ Must be some bitch he's marrying.
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:1999:October:06 Wednesday <Tuesday, Thursday>