Berkeley CSUA MOTD:1999:August:19 Thursday <Wednesday, Friday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
1999/8/19 [Computer/SW/Unix] UID:16340 Activity:nil
8/19    What port is the s/key server on? If I telnet directly to soda,
        it doesn't give me a "challenge" code. Which port do I telnet to?
        \_ Need to run initkey. The instruction on the soda web is
           not very newbie friendly. Nothing on soda is.
1999/8/19-20 [Academia/StanfUrd] UID:16341 Activity:high
8/19    So why is it that so many SV companies are formed by Stanford grads
        and nearly none by Berkeley grads?  What are they getting from their
        education that we're not?  Are we just being trained to be keyboard
        bound salary slaves for them?
        \_ NetApp is founded by a couple of berkeley guys.  The stock
           think of offhand are Cisco and Yahoo. --dim
           rocks BTW.
           \_What's the ticker. I find no such stock in symbol
             lookup. -ulysses
                \_ NTAP (Network Appliance is the full name)
        \_ Ever hear of Sun? Apple? The only Stanford companies I can
                        \_ SUN = "Stanford University Network".  It was
                           founded by 3 stanfurdites who then brought in
                           Bill Joy from UCB and gave him co-founder status.
                        \_ Apple was founded by college dropouts.  Woz didn't
                           get his degree from UCB until the late 80's.
           think of offhand are Cisco and Yahoo. Oh, and if your trollish
                        \_ A big chunk of it is owned by Softbank, started by
                           a Berkeley grad.
           statement is true, I would argue it has more to do with the
           environment of Stanford students independent of their choice of
           education (much like USC). That is, $$$ breeds $$$. --dim
                \_ Add Inktomi and to the UCB list.
                   \_  Ex-employee != Cal grad.  sendmail isn't
                                        \_ Eric Allman got his Masters in CS
                                           from UCB in 1980.  Sounds like a
                                           grad to me.
                                           \_ He wasn't a recent grad.  Brand
                                        new spanking fresh Stanford grads are
                                        starting up companies all over the SV
                                        and Cal grads are doing shit.  Someone
                                        who graduated before some of you were
                                        born is not a new grad and was from a
                                        totally different world anyway.  Even
                                        granting sendmail as a Cal started
                                        company, it's still only one pathetic
                                        company that isn't going anywhere.
                                        \_ Who cares about puny new
                                           companies that will probably
                                           fail? That's why I mentioned
                                           the big ones. --dim
                      a SV company.  It's a BA company, yes, but not SV and
                      not founded by a RCG like many Farm new grads are doing.
           \_ You joking?  There's *thousands* of SV companies big and small
              and you can only think of a few of the obvious big ones?
        \_ [spam from dim purged for ignorance and zero value content]
        \_ I'd have to agree with this.  The few Stanfurd classes I have
           taken really do emphasize managing the knowledge you're given to
           start up a company of your own someday.  Plus Stanfurd is more
           preppy in general and less focussed on crusading and more on real-
           world capitalism.
1999/8/19 [Computer/SW/Unix] UID:16342 Activity:nil
8/19    Anyone else get into the asheron call beta?  Is it worth a 57 meg
        ftp to try it out? Did it break your computer?
1999/8/19-21 [Computer/SW/Unix] UID:16343 Activity:low
8/19    Shell quoting question.  How do I combine shell variable expansion
        with regulr expression for $ with sed or awk?  Like if i want to
        append a string to the end of every line in a file?
        set a = fubar, sed 's/$/$a/'  ???
        If I pick single quotes the $a does not expand.  If I pick double
        quotes, then the $ for the regular expression gives me an error.
        \_ sed -e "s/\$/${a}/"  would be one way
               \- i dont think that will work udner tcsh. anyone try it?
           or ...
                \_ or use perl, this is exactly why it's better.
                   \_ Exactly.  Beat me to it.
                aside from understandign shell quoting there are some special
                tricks for awk. i dont remember if they work for sed. rather
                than take up space here see the shell faq. --psb
           or  -e s/'$'/"${a}/"
        \_ perl.
1999/8/19-23 [Computer/SW/Compilers, Computer/SW/WWW/Server] UID:16344 Activity:moderate
8/19    Anyone have any experience setting up name based virtual hosts using
        Apache?  This is fake but I have one IP,, and two
        name entries and  In my httpd.conf file I have

        DocumentRoot /~jondoe

        but now when I type or into the
        browser it gives me the message
        "Not Found The requested URL / was not found on this server."
        Anyone know what's wrong with this.
        \_ Apache doesn't grok "~"; use a full path.  -tom
                \_ grok?  y00 R s0 ]<-00|_ !!!111
                \_ D00de!  Warez y0r dikshunary?  Wutz 'gr0k' meen? U R K00l!11
  grok /grok/, var. /grohk/ /vt./  [from the novel
     "Stranger in a Strange Land", by Robert A. Heinlein, where it
     is a Martian word meaning literally `to drink' and metaphorically
     `to be one with'] The emphatic form is `grok in
     fullness'. 1. To understand, usually in a global sense.  Connotes
     intimate and exhaustive knowledge.  Contrast {zen}, which is
     similar supernal understanding experienced as a single brief flash.
     See also {glark}.  2. Used of programs, may connote merely
     sufficient understanding.  "Almost all C compilers grok the
     `void' type these days."

        \_ d00de, t0m iz ay MARSHUN??? thatz r/-\d!!!11
           \_ gr0k!!111 tom iz s0 k00l h3 kan gr0k!@111!11 d00ewde!!!@
           \_ Y d0 yu kepe rem00vein mye k-rad c0mmetz 2 t0M?  eye leik t0m,
              hez s0 k00l cuz hez D gr0k mast0r!11  t0m iz rad!11  t0m iz rad!1
              t0m iz rad!1 t0m iz raf!!1 yeh d00dez r0k 0n!1111
        \_ Not only that, but grab the latest (1.3.9) for better
           virtual hosting features.
1999/8/19 [Transportation/Car] UID:16345 Activity:very high 73%like:16350
8/19    Car gurus: Should I break hard or break smoothly to save my
        break pad and tire? A mechanic told me that if I break hard, then
        I don't have to change my break pad as often. However, another
        mechanic disagrees and says that if I break smoothly, then I
        don't have to change my tire as often. Who is right?
        \_ "brake"
        \_ obviously you need to call Car Talk
        \__ don't break at all
        \_ if you have a manual transmission, downshift gradually to second
           gear, and then use your brakes at the last moment.  If you have
           an automatic, don't worry about it, it won't make a noticable
           difference no matter what you do--just replace as needed.
        \_ Brake pads are much cheaper than clutch parts.  Stop worrying
           so much about something that wears out 2 or 3 times in your
           vehicle's life.  Break gently because the people in front of you
           get edgy when you wait till the last second to not hit them.
        \_ ob. RIDE BIKE
           \_ Should I break hard or smoothly to save the break of my bike?
           \_ dont break
                \_ Since it takes several years of commute riding to go
                   through a $25 set of brake pads, don't worry about it. -tom
1999/8/19-21 [Computer/SW/Unix] UID:16346 Activity:high
8/19    Shell script gurus please help.  I need to strip the first 10 lines
        and the last 3 lines off a whole bunch of files.  Is there an easy
        way to use sed to do this?  Thanks.
        \_ Sounds like a trivial job for head and tail.
           \_ It is: cat foo | tail -n +10 | tail -r | tail +4 | tail -r
           \_ Not completely trivial.  You'd need a wc in there somewhere.
              head needs a +<number> functionality.
              \_ Suppose you also have GNU tac:
                        head +10 | tac | head +3 | tac
              \_ Why the wc? head -n 10, tail -3? --dim
                 should work.  -- schoen
        \_ perl.
                \-there is a fairly evil way to do it in sed [first 10 lines
        is easy] last 3 is somewhat evil. not a good idea to do in sed unless
        like at least a 3rd level sed user. if you explain better what you
                \_ I still need 23 exp to make 3rd level.
        want i can probably five you the incantation ... do you want to SEE
        the first 10 and last 3 or do you want to delete them and write the
        file back with the first 10 gone and the bottom 3 gone. also, if you
        are operating on a bunch of files, the sed line count will continue
        across files ... so you have to operate on them one at a time.
        using tac is even more begging the question than saying "ues perl".
        using head/tail is cheeseball, just like "cut" is cheeseball [i use
        cut a lot but i at least know it is cheeseball.]. this is actually
        probably something you want to do inperl because writing the "error
        checks" [what if it is a 5 line file] is simpler in pl. --psb, 18th
        level sed mage.
        \_ sed, yucky.  awk, yucky.  perl, good.
                                        \-Don't be too proud of this
        technological terror you've compiled. The abilities of perl are
        insignificant next to the power of Emacs. --parth vader      43200   A
                \_ Oh yeah?  Let's see you grab the first 10 and last 3 lines
                   of a list of files in emacs from the command line.
                \_ I need the files without the first 10 lines and the
                   last 3 lines.  BTW, "head +3" doesn't work. head does
                   NOT take "+" parameters.  Thanks a lot mighty psb.
                   \_ perl.
1999/8/19-20 [Uncategorized] UID:16347 Activity:kinda low
8/19    Richard M. Stallman speaks tonight at CoffeeNet in San Francisco,
        7:00p.  <DEAD><DEAD>    -- schoen
        \_ He giving out passwords again for the next internet worm to take
           advantage of?
1999/8/19-20 [Computer/SW/Security] UID:16348 Activity:high
8/19    Is it possible to disrupt GPS signal? Can Russians/Chinese send
        a satellite that sends false signal?
        \-well i guess i am now the gps "expert". well, yes, of course
        the system/signal can be disrupted. whether it can be spoofed
        is a trickier question ... because that is a detection-evasion
        issue. the answer depends on what scenario you are looking at.
        there is considered anti-spoofing engineering that has gone into
        the system and the protocol/signal design. if you have a more
        specific question, i may have a more specific answer. --psb
        \_ whatever.  zip your pants back up.
        \_ Not to mention that the signal is encrypted (PPS) and purposefully
           munged (bias in SPS). --dim
                \-the question is about a hostile attack [denial/spoof] which
        is different from an attack on an encryptions system [which is about
        extracting info, not restricting info or false info] so this normal
        mode isnt especially relevant. you seem to be getting at the source of
        errors. there are a huge number of sources of errors, some of them
        mathematical and contrived, other from circumstances [signal quality
        where you are, HDOP, etc.] or from nature [ionospheric delay [also
        measured in L2 channel]]. SPS bias [called SA] is usually about
        100m XY, 150m Z, and 350ns time but this too is varied to limit how
        much refining youc an do by long observations in carrier phase mode.
        on the L2 [secure channel], in addition to the normal encryption
        [P code], there is hardened mode for spoof detection which involves
        re-encrypting the L2 signal into Y code ... you need an even higher
        clearance for Y than PPS. i will now have to kill all of you. --psb
        \_ I was more addressing the "false signal" aspect than the
           "interrupt" aspect. Since the signal is encrypted, it would
           seem it would be difficult to spoof unless the spoofed signal
           used the same encryption algorithm. --dim
                \not necessarily. i am not sure if a "playback attack" would
        work because time is part of the encoding but in theory you could
        record the L2 telementary and just play it back at the wrong time.
        i am not sure what recievers would do with that. again it depends
        how exotic a scenario you want to envision ... i mean if the russian
        can park a mini-black hole next to the SV and slow down the cesium and
        rubidinum clocks on the satellite that would work too. i mean yes
        your answer acknowledges "there is some security in the system". --psb
        \_ A playback attack of this sort is (if it worked) basically a
           denial of service attack. I was more referring to an attack
           that would result in a diabolical signal skewed from the
           original by some known coordinates. It might be possible, but
           not easy to do. I agree that denial of service is the simplest
           way to go, but it's more obvious and less vile. --dim
                \-this is not what is usually considered a DoS. That would be
        more analogous to blocking the signal or some other way of preventing
        satellite lock. that's a spoof attack. --psb
        \_ Semantics. Using a spoof attack to deny service. Depends on
           what the original poster meant by "false signal". Of course,
           now that I think about it, wouldn't the original signal have
           to be jammed in some way first? How would the receivers react
           to multiple signals? --dim
                \-if i spoof a source address and use this to break into your
        machine and i use that to read your resume to find out your home
        address and then come over and cut your fingers off, i wouldnt call
        that a DoS or a spoof attack. what would you call it? nice account
        name. --psb
        \_ Dude, chill out on the coffee. You know what I meant and that's
           why I used the word "basically". --dim
                \-psb      ttyPv   Aug 10 00:38   (
        \_ So it sounds easy to "disrupt" signal. So how hard can it be for
           Milosevich to send out GPS signals? If he had done it from the
           beginning, then there wouldn't be any cruise missile right?
        \_ Yeah I totally saw this in a movie and like though James Bond was
           like really cool with thise Chinese chick and they like you know
           figured it out and stopped the bad guy and totally were on the
           make so yeah the Russians can probably do it and steal our people
           who are out boating and stuff and make them boat to Russia and be
           held captive while hiking and stuff so like uh huh nuke 'em before
           they take over the GPS because then they could boatjack our navy
           and make these really cool ufos the airforce have get confused and
           land in China or Russia or Iraq!!!!
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:1999:August:19 Thursday <Wednesday, Friday>