Berkeley CSUA MOTD:1999:June:08 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
1999/6/8 [Uncategorized] UID:15916 Activity:nil
6/7     What are some good LCD displays on the market that is cheap (ie.
        in the $700 range)? Thanks.
1999/6/8-9 [Computer/SW/WWW/Browsers, Computer/SW/Security] UID:15917 Activity:high
6/8     Commentary on third voice:

          \_ can anyone see the notes posted on that page?  i have
             thirdvoice installed, and it works on other pages.  there
             are notes posted on that page; thirdvoice pulls up the
             topics in their frame but i am unable to read them.
             clicking on the note icon in the text does not work.
             i get an occasional javascript error, i wonder if they
             are hosing the thirdvoice stuff somehow.  --caliban
             \_ I can read it ok.  That's what public betas are for.  If you
                mail your system details and the URL to
                someone will check it out.  -Judd
             \_ strangely enough that site's annotations are failing in my
                3rdvoice client too. -Eric
          \_ Watch the web designer weenies whine!  They just can't share the
          \_ Amazing! Singaporeans pushing the limits of free speech.
            \_ Yeah, go figure!
1999/6/8 [Uncategorized] UID:15918 Activity:nil
6/8     So who thinks ThirdVoice will go down when they're sued?
1999/6/8-9 [Uncategorized] UID:15919 Activity:high
6/8     Wherez all the hot chix at Usenix?
        \_ Christine'll be there tonight and tomorrow!
           \_ Isn't she a total dog?
           \_ Isn't she a total hottie?
             \_ yes.
1999/6/8-9 [Computer/SW/SpamAssassin] UID:15920 Activity:insanely high
6/8     ThirdVoice employees are censoring this motd. They don't want
        you to talk about whether ThirdVoice will go out of business when
        they are sued.
        \_  You're seriuosly deluding yourself, as if we could really care
            less. And besides, by the time any legal action happened it'd all
            be a moot point. -ERic
            \_ yeah, by that time, we'll have cached in our stock options,
               and moved on...
        \_ Yeah whatever.  As if the motd is going to make or break us.  Eric
           is wrong.  You're not deluded.  You're waaaay past that.   -Judd
           \_ Young JuddWalker, do not understimate the power of The Motd.
                \_ Clearly Great Jedi Master, I walk among my superiors.  -Judd
        \_ Here is some unsolicited business advice:  ThirdVoice will fail
           because of the following reasons.
           1.  thirdvoice might as well be bitch voice.  People will go out
               of their way to complain about something.  But if a site is
               functional, they will be less likely to express that.  Hence
               most "voices" are bad ones.  E.g. the apartment review sites:
               many of them only has bad to worst reviews.
                \_ If that's the way _you_ want to use it, you can.  -Judd
           2.  Yet another ad supported business model.  Don't you think that
               yahoo has that cornered?  The big will get bigger.  It is
               extremely unlikely that ANYONE will challenge the Yahoo, AOL,
               or MSN of the world.
                \_ I wasn't aware our head of BusDev was posting the the motd.
                   Who told you our business model?   -Judd
           3.  So a site is ugly and you write something about it.  So what?
               Who the hell cares?  Unless there is money involved, I would
               care less if Joe Blow dislike it.  It's one thing to
               objectively evaluate say the response time of a company's
               customer service or the reliablity of the site.  That there is
               a market for already (see  It's another
               thing to have the millions of web monkeys bad mouthing a
               product or service.
                \_ Don't be so format centric.  Content is king, not layout.
                   And the existence of some random website which serves a
                   single need does not replace an entirely new communications
                   method.  IRC existed for years before ICQ, yet ICQ made it
                   for some reason.  -Judd
                 \_ why did ICQ make it?  is it just because ICQ is another
                    good medium for trading 31337 stuph? -oj
                   \_ Never used it so I can't honestly say what use others
                      have used it for.  It *did* make it though.  -Judd
                   \_ Unix came before win95, yet win95 is on 90% of all
                      desktops.  Why?  Why ask why?  Marketing and sales
                      and having the guts to go after your competitor's
                      throat made all the difference.  Same for ICQ vs IRC.
                        \_ win95 made it over unix for the home market because
                           the bulk of thehome market can't deal with unix
           4.  Relying on unpaid web monkey to do yer job.  What is in it for
               me?  Why would I want to use it?  For a site to grow there has
               to be something that users can get in return.  Just having my
               bitching reviews posted online might be enough for a few
               who really want to bitch.  But for the vast majority who are
               looking for real info, reviewing sites is GRUNT WORK.
               Community sites with chat rooms or message boards work because
               they attract people with common interested and they talk about
               common interests.  Random bitchings about a webmaster will only
               attract other random bitchings.
                \_ Why are you so down on web surfers?  They're people just
                   like everyone else.  They are your friends, family,
                   neighbors and others.  They're not 'monkeys'.  They're
                   people and without them I imagine most of us wouldn't have
                   our current jobs.  -Judd
     \_ That wasn't advice.  It was your opinion.  Some of it may even
        be valid.  If you're so certain it's dead then why does it seem
        to bother you so much?  Just curious, are you a webmaster or
        html/java/whatever coder at some major site?  It's unfortunate
        you don't regard your fellow net users as anything more than
        monkeys.  (Your words).  Like most things, it's just a tool.
        It can be used for good things and bad.  Email is full of spam.
        Are you opposed to email?  Usenet and lots of websites are
        full of spam and hate (KKK comes to mind).  Are you opposed to
        the web and usenet?  If not Thirdvoice, someone else will do
        it.  It's coming.  Deal.  -Judd
        \_ "Are you opposed to email?" is not an appropriate counter-arg
           to what this dude is saying.
          Third voice is a tool, but it is a tool like spam, not a tool
          like email.
          \_ spam isn't a tool.  spam is unwanted communication.  email is
             a tool for spam.  usenet is a tool for spam.  icq is a tool for
             spam.  irc is a tool for spam.  a fax machine, telephone, and
             pagers are all tools for spam.  let's ban them.
             \_ Don't be silly -- that's not at all what I said.  Spam
             is a tool for communicating with many people simultaneously
             (like junk mail).  Admitedly, receiving spam is, generally,
                \_ There's nothing wrong with communicating to many people at
                   the same time.  The unsolicited nature is what makes spam
                   a problem.  Like opt-in mail lists, people have a choice to
                   signup and use Thirdvoice or not.  Unlike spam, it isn't
                   shoved down your throat as you note later.
             involuntary, whereas Third Voice is voluntary.  This is
             why I say I don't have any problems with other using Third
             I don't like recieving random emails (spam), so I try to
             avoid getting it.
             I don't want to read the commentary of random people, so I
             will not use Third Voice.
          I have no problems with people using it, but I don't think I
          ever will, since I'm already drowning in a sea of information;
          more random crap will not help my predicament.
          \_ my sentiments exactly.
          \_ I don't use ICQ because I don't have the need.  Don't use
             Thirdvoice if you don't have the need.  *shrug*  -Judd

         5. It's unprofessional to have it on a business site, without
            direct control and maintainance by that business.
            It's a "cool hack". But it's not somethign I can see IBM
            putting all over their site.
            \_ someone doesn't know how 3rdVoice works - get yourself
               to a Windows machine and ... JOIN the mediocrity!
        \_ There have already been lawsuits concerning taking someone
        else's contents, and putting a "frame" around it, with
        your own business' name, ads, whatever.
        This is essentially what ThirdVoice does. They will be
        sued, no doubt about it.
        \_ you've tried it, right?
        \_ And the results of those suits?  You're a lawyer?  Being sued
           doesn't mean anything.  I can sue you for anything I want.  Doesn't
           mean I'll win or even get to see a judge for more than the 2
           minutes it takes to have my suit dismissed.  It means nothing.
           \_ wrong. pending lawsuits greatly diminish the amount
              of investment in a company.
                \_ Who said thirdvoice needs investors?
1999/6/8 [Uncategorized] UID:15921 Activity:high 66%like:15924
6/8     What exactly is this ThirdVoice?
        \_ if you need to ask, you don't know.
           \_ That's exactly why he asked.
           \_ ... dont know how to look at <DEAD><DEAD>  A poorly
              designed website if ever I saw one.
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:1999:June:08 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>