3/19 Dell anounces it will ship PCs with RedHat Linux preinstalled:
http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,34036,00.html
\_ Is there going to be a Linux refund day?
\_ Why? Isn't Linux free, unlike Windoze?
\_ Most of it is free but RedHat throws in a bunch of
commercial crap that nobody uses (like a Real media server)
so that can charge $40 for it. It also comes w/ a manual.
\_ RedHat's Lunitux. And it costs them money to install it.
\_ Good luck to Dell to get Linux users to buy Dell computers.
\_ What's wrong with Dell's? They only cost twice as much as a
computer you build yourself.
\_ and they're worth more than twice as much. -tom
\_ The only x86 based PC worth paying extra money for
performance are IBM's and SGI's.
\_ Yeah all that off the shelf hardware magically becomes
much more reliable and better performing when installed
by a Dell technical genius.
\_ No, it becomes WARRANTIED, and YOU DON'T HAVE TO SPEND
TIME PUTTING IT TOGETHER AND MAKING IT WORK. -tom
\_ My parts are covered. I think I can afford an hour or
two to save $1000 or more. Anyway, it's a hobby thing
and I get *exactly* the hardware I want. To the person
below, who said I was using cheap parts? What's a cheap
part anyway? They all come from the same factories.
Please name a "cheap part" that will be hard to install.
You just need a good case. The rest is generic.
\_ Selecting a mother board would be your first
problem. Intel, Asus, SuperMicro, Tyan, etc?
For example, I tend not to want to use a
model that just came out. New models tend
to have problems fixed only in later revisions.
They are usually only tested with brand name
components, and even that is not guanranteed.
When there is a problem, you are sometimes
left wondering whether the problem is with
the PCI bus, a BIOS setting, a motherboard
switch setting, your network card, a device
driver problem, compatibility problem, etc.
When going crazy trying to solve a problem,
you may unknowingly create a second problem
zapping another component with static.
I would gladly let Dell do the dog work and
quality control for me, and let them iron out
all the problems.
\_ I don't see MB selection as a "problem". People,
this isn't rocket science. You're just assembling
stock parts. This isn't the old bad days of Dos
2.1 (or even 6.2) where nothing worked and it took
hours of fucking with config.sys to get something
working. The parts Dell uses are the same you're
getting. They don't come from a Magic Dell
Factory whever everything is always wonderful
Factory where everything is always wonderful
while your parts are coming from Factory Hell
where nothing ever works. It's the same stuff.
The only difference is you won't be paying for
parts you don't need/want and can put that money
towards things you do.
\_ Yes, Dell parts are the same you are
getting but they do a couple of things.
One, they test and throw out all the
defective parts. Two, they make sure
all their components work together
well. Three, they configure and
assemble the system for you on a
production line. Four, they test the
whole system again after assembly.
Go to a computer reseller, open a
box of say Diamond Multimedia video
cards or Intel motherboards and test
them. The defective rate can be as
high as 10 percent.
\_ Ok, granting all these things are true,
pleasure.
which they're not entirely, even if I got
a defective board, so what? I return it.
I get a new one. This isn't for work. It's
a hobbyist home system. Dell buys in bulk
so they have lower price purchase prices
but their rates aren't *that* much lower,
you *are* paying for them to build it and
run their business and you *don't* get
exactly the parts you want. If you don't
care about what's really under the hood,
then you are a Dell customer and I hope
the value you feel they're adding is worth
the price you're paying. Nothing wrong with
that. It just isn't the best you can do for
your money.
\_ Just make sure you test your
motherboard well before assembling
your system. I hate taking a
motherboard out. I also hate
driving one hour to Hi-tech USA
(or whatever) to exchange a part,
or packing stuff and going to the
mail shop.
I do care about what is under the
hood, and Dell components seem
fine to me.
Price advantage of resellers over
brand name systems has been eroding
over the past few years, so I doubt
you can save much money.
You do get to use the exact parts
you want though, and if you need
to tinker with your system in the
future, you already know it
through and through. Enjoy building
your system. I love the ones I
built, but would not do it again.
\_ look, have fun building your box, but you're fooling
yourself if you think it makes economic sense. -tom
\_ Whatever Tom.
\_ Ja, building your own system is a nice learning
experience, but after doing it for a few times,
you decide that the money saved is not worth the
amount of effort you have to put in. You also
realize that the cheaper the components you used,
the higher the amount of time you have to put in.
\_ Agreed. I've been building my own computers since the
486 days. But for my dad, I'm gonna plop down some $$$
for a Dell Celeron. It's just not worth the hassle
each time.
\_ celeron sux. go with amd-k2.
\_ On Friday I saw a celeron 300MHz on an
overclocked board (66->100Mhz) perform a
little less than twice as fast as an AMD-K2
300Mhz. Celeron used to suck, but no longer
and for $60/chip... do the math fuckwit.
\_ I built my first computer before the 8086 days. I
don't get so easily "confused" that I need Dell to
pick all my parts for me and charge me more for the
pleasure. For your dad, sure, spend his money.
For yourself... don't you care?
\_ how much do you care about your time? I can
configure, price and order a Dell system in 5
minutes, sitting at my computer. How much time
do you spend contacting 8 different vendors
for parts? How much time do you spend putting
it together? If one of the DIMM slots is bad,
how much time do you spend taking the machine
apart again, and trying to convince the motherboard
manufacturer that it wasn't your DIMMs that were
bad?
If you're still a student, or some other class of
person whose life decisions are more cash-bound
than time-bound, that's fine. If you have a job,
and particularly if you're a computer professional
in a job that pays good money and probably takes
more than 40 hours, why the hell would you spend
one minute more of your time than is necessary,
to try to wring, at best, minor cash savings out of
a purchase? Seriously, how much does your free
time cost, per hour? -tom
\-that's a psb law: "there are two kinds
of people. peopel with more $ than time and
people with more time than $."
\_ It's a hobby, you freak! How much does your
netrek or other gaming time cost per hour?
\_ I don't try to claim that netrek is
cost-effective. Like I said, if you enjoy
building systems, have fun. -tom
\_ Well, nowhere in my answer did I say I was gonna
stop buying for myself. Unless a computer maker
magically has all the exact parts I want and
I don't feel like spending an entire weekend
going to all these small stores finding the
cheapest prices and constructing it myself.
\_ It isn't about money. I'll spend a few extra
bucks _AND_ the time to get _exactly_ the system
I want. _Exactly_ what I want. Not from their
approved list on a web form. I'm glad the
consumer route works for you.
\_ Don't some companies, even Dell, allow
you to customize the computer you buy
from them?
\_ On some web form, yes, to a *very* limited
extent. But if you want that safe feeling
from knowing you have the same computer
Dell has built for 10k others before you,
you can't get that from a highly
customised system. It isn't possible.
At that point, you're now paying them to
collect and assemble the same random
pile of parts you would've built for
yourself anyway. You've already done
research and everything else short of
actually popping it all in case. Might as
well just take that last step yourself.
And btw, I've seen vendor specific
versions of some hardware which require
you to use the vendor drivers. Generic
drivers don't work. Upgrading sucks too
because the cases are fucked also. Caveat
emptor and all that no matter which way
you go. Dell is not the be-all end-all
perfectly safe answer to hardware buying.
\_ Rather the contradiction with "off
the shelf" parts & "vendor drivers",
no? In any case, buying from a vendor
is all about convenience and no hassle,
especially when you need 20-30
identically set-up computers.
\_ No, it isn't a contradiction.
They're only tweaking the HW to
force you to come to them for future
support and upgrades, not to enhance
it in any way. Compaq is especially
prone to this and has a lousy system
of storing and categorising patches
to go along with it. Other than
making sure you're trapped with them
forever, there's nothing better or
different about the HW. It's just
a scam, not an improvement.
As far as 20-30 goes, go ahead. Buy
Dell. No one said you should build
20-30 machines from scrap. The idea
is stupid and you're creating a weak
straw man argument. |
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