Berkeley CSUA MOTD:1998:October:08 Thursday <Wednesday, Friday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
1998/10/8-11 [Computer/SW/Unix/WindowManager] UID:14750 Activity:kinda low
10/8    For those of you who have tried any combination of these which one
        do you prefer?: Afterstep, WindowMaker, or Enlightment. I want to
        know before I spend an hour downloading it. Oh yeah, ICEwm sucks.
        Looks too much like Win95.
        \_ wrt ICEwm, that was the point dude...
        \_ use twm.
        \_ I've tried all of them.  Tons of people like afterstep/blackbox
           (which look about the same to me).. I'm not sure why.
           Englightenment is pretty, but slow and very very buggy (0.14 still
           Enlightenment is pretty, but slow and very very buggy (0.14 still
           kills my Xserver after a few minutes of use)  I use fvwm2 because
           some of the modules (like FvwmButtons) are nice and SloppyFocus
           and SmartPlacement are very addictive.  Otherwise, I'd just use
           twm.  All of the things that make other window managers "advanced"
           (stylized borders, lots of icons, etc) just get annoying after
           you've got all of your shortcut keys and whatnot set up to actually
           get work done. --dbushong
        \_ ctwm is basically twm with virtual desktops.  I like it the most
           since I only have a 15" monitor. -- reeser
           \_ fvwm's virtual desktops are somewhat cooler for this, because
              then you can just drag windows from one to the other by banging
              them against the side of the screen --dbushong
1998/10/8-10 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:14751 Activity:high
10/7    Can you name all the Muslim countries on earth that is not at war
        with other countries?
        \_ Idiots!  All of you.  There answer is, there aren't any.
        \_ Racist pig.  Can you name all the white male dominated western
           countries that are not at war with other countries?
              Muslim hot-headed hypocrite bigots will rule the world!!!
                \_ Whitey will pay
                   \_ Never! Whitey will oppress forever! Whitey will beat
                      down the minority women with his oppressive white
                      male giant scaly penis of DOOM. White power! WHITE
                      POWER! -(fucker)
        \_ Try this: name all Judaeo-Christian countries that have engaged
           in military actions in the past 5 years, and then do the same for
           country of muslim, buddist, and atheist dispositions.
                \_ That's "secular", not atheist.  There's a difference.
                   \_ Read carefully.  I said disposition, not state religion.
                      US is disposed to Judae-Chiristianity.
                        \_ Ok then, name a country with an "atheist
                           disposition".  Are there any that exist that are
                           bigger than my living room?
                           \_ One can argue that China is a little bigger
                              than your living room, and the government has
                              a clear atheist disposition.  It is unfortunate
                              that the most powerful avowed atheists in the
                              world are totalitarians, just like the most
                              powerful theists used to be.  It provides some
                              ammunition for condemning atheism, though we
                              might retort with the Inquisition, just for
                              starters.  But power corrupts the theist and
                              atheist alike.  -- schoen
                                \_ One word for you, "Tibet".
                                \_ Am I the only one who wants to make little
                                   "nuke" stickers to put over the "free" part
                                   of those obnoxious free tibet bumper
                                \_ Actually, if you had lived in mainland
                                china for an extended period of time (I
                                had for 17 years), you will find life to
                                be more just and fair than, say, the US
                                30 years ago, and it is catching up fast.  As
                                for Tibet, if you are a Tibetan, you have
                                to be a Tibetan Buddhist, period.  But then
                                China has millsions of Muslims and Christians,
                                not to mention many more "real" buddhists and
                                Taoists.  This, however, does not change the
                                China's disposition as atheist.  Similarly,
                                the existence of atheists in US does not change
                                its desposition from being religious.
                                BTW, over the summer I visited regions in the
                                greater Tibet within China, (Tibetan activists
                                claim about 1/4 of China and large area in
                                south Asia as their territory) and found
                                Tibetans life to be much much better than
                                native americans in the US.
                                \_ I did not mean to say anything about the
                                   US v. China, or about Tibet.  I was just
                                   complaining that the Chinese atheists are
                                   also totalitarians, which they are.  Some
                                   American theist political types are also
                                   fairly totalitarian, and plenty of people
                                   can attest to how little I like the US
                                   government.  As an individualist, I may
                                   have different standards of "just and fair"
                                   than other people.  On power corrupting
                                   businesses, see ~schoen/power.txt. -- schoen
                                     \_ I'm flattered that you took the
                                        time to type up such a long document
                                        in an attempt to convince me of
                                        something that i can not be
                                        convinced of -- that Government
                                        (as opposed to a particular
                                        government) is intrinsically
                                        "immoral", as you say.
                                        \_ You're welcome, and I deny that
                                           you "can not be convinced of"
                                           that.  Someone deleted the "power
                                           corrupts businesses" comment, and
                                           that's an attempt at the response
                                           I would have made, were it not
                                           too long for the motd.  Note that
                                           this particular document isn't
                                           really an attempt to persuade you
                                           to be anti-statist, only to be
                                           pro-capitalist.  -- schoen
           of starvation from the u.s. sanctions?  albright claims it is
           worth it.  today is International Hunger Day.
        \_ Population control: if Family Planning won't do it, then let the
           military take a swipe at it.
                \_ Can you say Cambodia.
                \_ They've been doing it just fine for thousands of years.
                   The mistake was not letting them take it far enough.
                \_ Mother Nature's been doing a decent job as of late. Let's
                   give her a coupla years before we start nuking everyone.
                \_ Think of the alternative. 300 million more mouths to feed.
                   That's a *huge* deal. Not everyone can wave their magic
                   wand and conjure up food, land, etc. resources just like
                   that. China would have been a serious hellhole if they
                   weren't practicing coercive population control measures.
                   Human rights, shmuman rights. I'm an Amnesty International
                   member, so yeah, I guess I do care about that, but when
                   it comes down to it, China's actually being *responsible*
                   by trying to limit their growth. Can you imagine doing
                   anything like that in a US context? If Congress or the
                   President were to consider making a resolution merely
                   encouraging people to have no more than 2 kids, he/they
                   would get shot down in a second. Coercive or not, China's
                   policies have worked, and the world is better off for it.
        \_ Try twisting your head around wildly while thinking of the number
           of the number of countries that continually increase the amount of
           home-grown tomatoes each year.  Then hop-up-and-down on one foot,
           pat your head with your left hand, rub your belly with the right,
           and do your best to name countries that begin with the letter 'W'.
           \_ Waco?
        \_ Malaysia
                \_ They're at odds with Singapore, but it's more of
                   a Malay vs Chinese thing than Islam.
                  \_ They've got their differences with Singapore, but
                     I'd hardly call it a war (see orig. question).
        \_ have you ever considered the children in iraq who are dying
           of starvation from the brutal sanctions?  albright claims
           it is worth it.  today is International Hunger Day.
           \_ Kill em all, let God sort em out! (or is it Allah?)
           \_ I consider them next generation's anti-American terrorists.
              Better to kill them now when it's easy.
              \_ saying that all iraqis are terrorists is like saying that
                 all eecs majors are nerds...oh wait, bad example.
              \_ You're a funny man. 150,000 dead children cracks me up every
                \_ Hey, me too!  Cracks me up every time!
                \_ It's not 150,000 dead children.  It's 575,000
                   dead children.
                   \_ It's not 575,000 dead children.  It's 3,575,000
                      dead children.
                        \_ That's all?  3.5m terrorists dead, how many to go?
                           \_ Fuck you.
                              \_ are you cute?
                        \_ Better 3.5M of them than 1 of us.
                          \_ I'd trade our serial killers for their terrorists
                             at a 1:3.5m ratio.
        \_ People suck -- Nuke the entire planet, and give the cockroaches
           a chance.
1998/10/8-11 [Computer/SW/Security] UID:14752 Activity:kinda low
10/7    I want to use a console based ssh on my NT machine (i.e. so
        that I can run ssh in a MSDOS shell). I have found 1 program
        but that didn't have vt100 support. Any pointers?
        (Why do I want to do this? Because I want to use econsole
         and not the ugly FSecure ssh terminal).
        \_ set up a port forward for port 23 and use whatever telnet client
           you like.  -tom
                \_ But then is there a console based telnet for NT?
                   The standard telnet will pop up another window.
        \_ SecureCRT baby, worth every penny.
           \_ Or teraterm, also worth every penny but much cheaper.
              \_ Teraterm is better than FSecure or SecureCRT, IMHO.
                 Suggested changes: turn off cursor blinking in the .ini
                 file (it's not one of the GUI configurable options), and
                 steal the font from CRT/SecureCRT as it's the one xterms
                 use and looks much nicer than your default options.  Also
                 turn off the menu.. hey.. you don't really need it  --dbushong
                        \_ But can teraterm have transparent backgrounds
                           like econsole?
                           \_ Now seems as good a time as any to ask why
                              the fuck you're running windows..  --dbushong
                           \_ It has source. there fore, if you have clue
                              and time, it can have that.
        \_ Anyone know of any Mac SSH software besides F-Secure?
          \_ NiftyTelnet SSH.
              \_ URL? --dim
                 \_ Note that
                    it's technically illegal for use in the US of A. I'm
                    distribution of th SSH-enabled beta is on hold:
                    actually looking forward to the SSH enabled version of
                    BetterTelnet, which is a really nice Mac telnet client, but
                    distribution of the SSH-enabled beta is on hold:
1998/10/8-10 [Uncategorized] UID:14753 Activity:nil
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:1998:October:08 Thursday <Wednesday, Friday>