Berkeley CSUA MOTD:1998:August:09 Sunday <Saturday, Monday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
1998/8/9-11 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:14432 Activity:high
8/7     What are the advantages of FreeBSD over Linux?
        \_  Well, FreeBSD's NFS implementation is better than Linux's
            and FreeBSD has a reputation for better overall stability than
            Linux.  Also, I understand that FreeBSD scales to a large number
            of users better because of how process scheduling is done.
            I use Linux exclusively myself, because I have
            a dual-CPU machine (which FreeBSD doesn't have good support for)
                                                \_ Coming in October! -- tmonroe
            an Alpha running Linux (no FreeBSD), and Sparcs (no FreeBSD.)
            Also, the people in my research group are used to Linux, so it'd
            be hard to get them to change.  FreeBSD and Linux are both
            very good:  I certainly wouldn't be sorry to work in a place
            running FreeBSD when I leave UCB.  Irix or HP-UX, and I'd
            be hating life.  The standard response to "FreeBSD or Linux?"
            is "run what your friends are running, so they can help you."
                \_ Hey, WTF is wrong with Irix? Irix works fine.
                   \_ Well I think that not packaging NFS/NIS with
                      a system is pretty crappy to starts off with.
                      I could go on but this digresses from the thread.  --jon
                   \_ Does irix run on the Ix86 architecture? That's WTF is
                      wrong with it (for the purpose of this thread).
                   \_ Irix is insecure and SGI has announced they're dropping
                        it in favor of NT.  What more do you want?   (The total
                        reliance on non-standard gui tools is also annoying)
                        \_ I don't think NT or anything Microsoft makes is
                           considered the epitome of "standard" despite
                           their attempts to force the rest of the world
                           to revolve around themselves.
                           \_ Weeelllllllll.... if you've got %90 or so of
                                the marketplace and most software/app
                                companies are writing for your OS with your
                                API's, aren't you a defacto standard?  If not,
                                then what is?  Must it be ANSI approved to be
                                a standard?  I don't think so.
                                \_ Standards are devised by a diverse
                                   group of people from different
                                   organizations, not from a single
                                   corporation.  Microsoft often takes
                                   existing standards and alters it to its
                                   own specs (MS Java? == standard Java,
                                   cab came after zip,gz,and tar.gz,
                                   Win95 api came after X11 and Atena
                                   which at that time had been a standard,
                                   and no, tcp/ip was not invented by
                                   microsoft, yet they've tried to come up
                                with their own hoakey standard called the
                                Microsoft Network.
                                with their own hoakey standard called
                                Microsoft Networking.
                                \_ Speaking of standards most unix systems
                                   are posix compliant (the way binary
                                   files and OS's behave).  The format for
                                   most unix binaries is called executable
                                   link format is is considered a standard
                                   among institutions and developers and
                                   allows people to easily develop tools
                                   and operating systems that handle
                                   binaries with great ease
                                   (eg. binutils)  Win95, on the other
                                   hand, relies on some proprietary format
                                   (those *.exe and *.dll) that no one but
                                   Microsoft and people who purchase their
                                   specs, can understand.
                                \_ That's very idealistic of you, but I still
                                   say a standard is what the majority is
                                   using.  Bad, came afterwards, not posix,
                                   etc doesn't mean jack if that's a minority
                                   requirement and you can dominate the market
                                   without being "standard".  How can you be
                                   a monopoly but not be a standard?  It makes
                                   no sense?  You really think MS isn't a
                                   \_ I guess your definition of
                                      standardization is different than
                                      mine. Your's is one based on social
                                      conformity whereas mine is one made
                                      based on intellegent and informed
                                      decision making.
                                   \_ the metrics system is considered by
                                      most to be a universal standard.
                                      Nevertheless, the english system
                                      still dominates as the system of
                                      choice by most Americans outside of
                                      educational and research
                                      institutions mostly in part due to
                                      industry. Standards are devised
                                      by reason not by popularity.
         \_ FreeBSD is clean, stable, logical, and reliable.  Linux has
            more hardware and (native) software support, and is currently
            the subject of more development.  -- schoen
         \_ Wow.. these are like both useful answers.. I was expecting a
            holy war.
            \_ These answers are only useful to computer gurus.  For everyone
               it's useless.
               \_ Yes, you should just continue babbling and drooling in front
                  of your Win98 boxes.  Have you paid microsoft today?
                    \_ No, I pirate all my MS software.
                      \_ You know they have it all bugged to report all your
                         pirated warez to microsoft if they can get on the
                         net.   Better keep that machine off any form of
                         \_ Laugh.  This is a ridiculous claim.
                        \_ too bad we can't prove that because ms doesn't
                           release source code.  That's the big advantage
                           of open source.  You can verify if anything
                           malicious is taking place.  You can also pick
                           out security flaws better.
                           \_ Easy enough to prove it *doesn't* happen.
                              Just monitor your IP traffic.  If you don't
                              have any packets going anywhere (if they
                              *did* do this, I doubt they'd be dumb enough
                              to send the info directly to
                              unidentifiable, then there can't be a
                        \_ This is beyond ridiculously stupid and paranoid.
                           "BILL GATES IS IN MY MIND!!! AAAAUUUUUGGGGHHHH!!!!"
                           \_ He talks to me all the time!!  He doesn't talk
                              to you, ever?  He tells me how I've always been
                              his most faithful user, and how very much he
                              loves me for supporting all of his company's
                              products.  He says that once he divorces
                              Melinda, he's going to come for me (in a gold-
                              plated Learjet), he'll leave Microsoft to
                              Ballmer, and then we'll fly away to his private
                              island in the South Pacific to live out the
                              rest of our days in a $183 million palace of
                              pleasure that he's building _right_ _now_,
                              _just_ _for_ _me_!!!  Take me away, Bill!!
                                \_ BG IS IN MY MIND!!! HE DOESN'T JUST TALK
                                   TO ME!!!  HE TELLS ME WHAT TO DO THROUGH
                                   THE RADIATION COMING FROM MY MS MOUSE!!!
            \_ Same here. Is the secret to getting questions answered to
               ask on the weekends?
                \-if you are into hardcore low-level networking, you may
                have a preference ... then again, if you if you are working
                in this kind of thing, you are probably aware of the issues.
                we use BPf-style stuff rather than streams-styles machines
                [e.g. solaris] for packet capture/analysis stuff for example.
                [use freebsd on 400mhz pentiums with some kernel hacks ...
                can keep up with a full duplex 100mbit feed]. --psb
           \_ freebsd just killed my ethernet pcmcia card (or pcic,
                dunno which, yet). nick
                \_ Killed?  Caused physical damage?
        \_ FreeBSD has a more organized/centralized development process -
                Linux is more chaotic/anarchic - this lets Linux change
                faster, but makes FreeBSD easier to support (you don't
                have to worry about which distribution/library set/etc. is
                being used since there is only one).
        \_ DiskAndExecutionMONitor >> penguin
                \_ Even though I'm a FreeBSD user myself, I do place some
                   value on being a good neighbor.  If the practice of
                   putting the Beastie and the Penguin at each other's
                   throats continues, the free UNIX world will kill itself.
                   While I won't liken this up to racism, I will say that
                   it's unnecessary.  Suum cuique, and I will respect your
                   choices as long as you don't go on about how everything
                   else sucks.  -- tmonroe, and what little Latin he remembers
                   \_ LINUX R000lEZ!!! FR33BSD DR)))000lEZEezzZZ!!!!11!
1998/8/9-13 [Recreation/Pets] UID:14433 Activity:nil
        \_ Cat Butt: Fear It!  -=Aubie
1998/8/9-1999/3/5 [Uncategorized/Profanity] UID:14434 Activity:moderate 66%like:14977
9/20    idiot troll deleted, again.
        \_ You are a fucking asshole.  You delete things that are
           unintelligent.  Fuck off dipshit.
        \_ The ghost of kchang...
        \_ you suck
1998/8/9 [Uncategorized] UID:14435 Activity:nil
8/7     Stupid grandmother junk deleted
1998/8/9 [Uncategorized] UID:14436 Activity:nil
8/7     You want proof?  Here's the proof!
        (From IHCC - Indonesian Huaren Crisis Center)
1998/8/9 [Uncategorized] UID:14437 Activity:nil
8/7     Does www.csua provide counters and clocks like Count.cgi?
        \_ No - counters are wildly inaccurate, pointless wastes of bandwidth.
           Clocks are 1 line of javascript, and pointless for us to provide
           \_ You can also write a counter yourself; it doesn't need
1998/8/9-13 [Recreation/Media] UID:14438 Activity:very high
8/7     TMBG tickets go on sale sunday for 9/10/98 show at Fillmore.
        \_ Is there any way to order tickets over the phone?  BASS, etc?
           \_ like almost every other show in existence, you can order tix
                \_ yes.  learn to read.
                        \_ Paradoxically, without an ability to read, the
                        \_ Paradoxically, without the ability to read, the
                           person couldn't follow your advice to learn to do
        \_OK, I give up.  Who or what is TMBG?
          \_ They Might Be Giants.  Is there going to be a CSUA group going?
           \_ a question: why does TMBG have such a geek following (say,
              as opposed to some other crappy 'alternative' band one
              could pick)?
                \_ geeks like things that are QUIRKY.
              \_ They appeal to the intellectual, with songs like "Mammal".
                 One could say that they are an educational experience
                 from time to time.  Of course, then there's S E X X Y...
                 -- tmonroe
                \_ Pop music with an intellectual bent?  Tell me next about
                   military intelligence and other oxymorons.
                   \_ I dunno, can any music with accordians be considered
                      pop?  I always thought they were just "wierd".
              over the phone through BASS, at BASS ticket outlets, or at
              the venue itself.  only the latter lets you avoid exorbitant
              service charges.
        \_ Show at Fillmore or tickets on sale at Fillmore or both?
                \_ Both.  (tickets also elsewhere, see above)
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:1998:August:09 Sunday <Saturday, Monday>