Berkeley CSUA MOTD:1998:July:08 Wednesday <Tuesday, Thursday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
1998/7/8-9 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Computer/SW/OS/Windows] UID:14299 Activity:insanely high
7/8     What happens if you do a set uid=0.  Does that automatically
        give your root access. (set gid=0, set user=root)
        \_ You know, if you try logging in as "System Administrator"
           without a password on some of those NT machines they'll let
           you right in.  Those are our security-minded sysadmins at
           eecs instructional.
                \_ NT is insecure by definition.  Besides, who cares if
                   you can login as admin on an NT client?  All you can
                   do is hoze the local machine, which is going to be
                   wiped & reinstalled anyway since NT sucks so badly.
                        \_ If you have access to the console, any OS is
                           insecure by definition
                                \_ If the machine is up and running, it's
                                   insecure by definition.
                                        \_ Strongly agree!!!  The most
                                           secured system is the one powered
                   \_ Someone here gets the crash screen a few times a week.  I
                      guess I am among the very few lucky ones since I've only
                      gotten the crash screen a few times in the past months.
                        \_ What's wrong with you people.  I have NT running
                           \_ We're mad as hell that Microsoft is spending
                              millions of dollars in seldom-countered
                                \_ At least, I can run more applications than
                                   Linux developer can support.  Imagine trying
                                   develop Oracle applications with Linux...
                                   Oh..I forgot Oracle doesn't support Linux.
                                \_ If it's not supported by the major
                                    software vendors or my company,
                                    it's useless!!!
                              advertising that creates the impression that
                              there is something wrong with anybody who doesn't
                                   Don't want to waste that on a Linux OS
                                   where I can't install anything but
                                   shareware and freeware.
                              use Microsoft software.  (Even if that's not the
                              particular meme you were repeating.)  The looks
                              you get when you say you don't use Windows are
                              like the looks when you say you're a vegetarian,
                              or an atheist.  -- vegetarian atheist Linux user
                              use Microsoft software.
                           since last year, I have not experienced any
                           system crash yet.  I have IIS 3, Oracle 8 server,
                           networking, and a bunch of DB development tools.
                           \_ your machine must be going at 2 miles per
                              hour. FOR THE LAST TIME...GET LINUX.
                                \_ Not if you got a PII with 300mhz system
                                   and 128MB RAM, Dell Workstation 400.
                                   Don't want to waste on a Linux OS that is
                                   supported by shareware and freeware.
                                   \_ machines scale linearly O(n) with
                                      Linux and O(log(n)) with Winblows.
                                      Funny, there's about ten times
                                      more software with Windows but you
                                      can still do so much more with
                                        \_ The point is, the software I need
                                           to get my work done is not supported
                                           by Linux.  If you work for the
                                           corporate company, you don't have
                                           luxury of picking the sofware, in
                                           my case database and web tools,
                                           you want to use.
                                           \_ I work with both unix and
                                              winblows based machines at
                                              work which involves web and
                                              database integration. I find
                                              unix tools much more flexible
                                              and easier to work with than
                                              the winblows ones.  See Perl
                                              DBI modules.
                                                \_ My company doesn't like
                                                   \_ Apache has had in-proc
                                                      Perl support for a good
                                                   perl.  We like products
                                                   such as the Oracle 2000
                                                   products.  It's faster
                                                   to develop and has nicer
                                                   UI.  Besides, cgi/perl is
                                                   slow.  It needs to compile
                                                   and start a process every
                                                   web access.  If you need
                                                   support like 500+ users,
                                                   it's going be nightmare.
                                                   \_ Apache has had single
                                                      binary, in-process Perl
                                                      support for a good
                                                      long time.  Where've you
                                                      been?  Microsoft PR firm?
                                                        \_ So does IIS.  That's
                                                           no point.  There are
                                                           guidelines within
                                                           IS group of what
                                                           software is permitted
                                                           and what software
                                                           is not.  For ex.,
                                                           we're not allowed
                                                           write java applets.
                                                           \_ Don't pretend,
                                                              then, please,
                                                              that the peculiar
                                                              prejudices of
                                                              your IS group
                                                              represent a good
                                                              argument.  "My
                                                              IS group hates
                                                              free software"
                                                              != "besides,
                                                              cgi/perl is
                                                              slow".  Your
                                                              companies can
                                                              detest free OSes
                                                              all they like,
                                                              but it doesn't
                                                              make them any
                                                              less scalable.
                                                              \_ It's a
                                                                 life.  They
                                                                 don't call
                                                                 slave" for
                                                                 \_ I'll take
                                                                    my freedom,
                                                              \_ Hear,
                                                                 -- tmonroe
                                                                 \_ It's the
                                                                    tower of
                                                                    \_ AT some
point                                                                 the motd
just has                                                              to wrap
back to                                                               the left
side. -ERic
                                   \_ Yeah, God damn gcc, Perl, Apache, X11,
                                      SSH, Emacs, GIMP, Netscape, and the rest
                                      of them to HELL!  They weren't written by
                                      Microsoft Certified Developers!  And none
                                      of those wimpy languages like Scheme and
                                      Java, because they aren't Visual Basic!
                                      And BIND and sendmail supporting the
                                      fundamental architecture of the
                                      Internet... that's just a myth made up by
                                      Microsoft haters!  Everyone knows that
                                      TCP/IP was really developed on Windows NT
                                      by Microsoft Certified Developers, who
                                      wouldn't touch that shareware and
                                      freeware with a 1,024-foot pole!
                                        \_ Tell that to your CIO.
                                           \_ We already had this flamewar,
                                              once upon a time: but I'll repeat
                                              myself.  It is not difficult to
                                              get jobs using Linux which do
                                              not require you to support
                                              I do not have a CIO, but I do
                                              have a boss and coworkers who
                                              are enthusiastic about software
                                              other than that which you get
                                              from Redmond.  Thank you.
                                                \_ Maybe I should quit my
                                                   $80+K job and my 5 yrs of
                                                   M$/Oracle experience and
                                                   go for Linux/Perl supported
                                                   \_ Yes, you should.  There
                                                      are already $80K Linux
                                                      jobs here and there, a
                                                      nice feat considering
                                                      the presently low market
                                                      share of Linux.
                                                      \_ With little or no
                                                         Linux experience???
                                                         I don't know.  You'll
                                                         lucky to get $60-70K
                                                         job.  I am sure if
                                                         you are expecting
                                                         10-20% increase for
                                                         job change.  Good
                                                         luck if you looking
                                                         Linux job at $90-100K.

        \_ yes.
        \_ Hmmm...I just tried this "% set uid=0; rm -f /etc/passwd" but
           permission denied.
           \_ Yer just not eleete enuf.  try with a " ~ " before the
           \_ try cp /bin/csh ~; chown root:root ~/csh; chmod a+s ~/csh
1998/7/8-10 [Computer/SW/Languages/C_Cplusplus] UID:14300 Activity:moderate
7/8  Does anyone have experience with STL (Standard Template Library)?
     A benchmarked their vector class about 6 months ago and it was
      twice as slow as my own version.  Also g++ didn't seem to support
     it very well.  If I want to compile with g++ is STL worth using?
     Thank you for the advice.  -emin
     \_ "their vector class"?  from what i know, STL has many diff
        implementations, it's not a generic C++ thing, it depends on the
        compiler vendor or the 3rd party provider.  -oj
        \_ Sorry, I meant the vector class in the STL that came with
           my g++ on FreeBSD. -emin
           \_ g++ is known to be ugly.
              \_ Do you have a better suggestion for a UNIX compiler?
                 \_ There are some commercial ones, if you want.
1998/7/8-10 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:14301 Activity:low
7/7  what is all that crap in the official motd about routing mail?
     \_ If you currently use soda as an smtp server, it'll stop working
        unless you're in berkeley or you are only sending mail to soda.
        \_ out of curiousity, what were the reasons that this change was
           made? prevent others from leeching resources?
           \_ To stop spam relaying.
              \_ And thus keep soda off of the RBL.
                \_ what is RBL?
                        \_ The black list discussed in the bottom half of the
                           motd  [formatting corrected. -Format Master]
                   \_ I have not now, nor have I ever, been a member of
                      Organization X.
                \_ To stop the several hundred complaints sent to
               & in the
                        last few days since some spammer discovered we relayed.
                   \_ Question: since this is supposed to be run by various
                      super clued security minded people, how come we were
                      relaying in the first place?
                        \_ convience to soda users?
                      \_ because some of our 'super-clued' but perhaps less
                         'security minded' people decided the convenience of
                         supporting users with their POP mailers coming from
                         random ISP's would be better and bring less complaint
                         hassles to root@soda.  -ERic
        \_How is this supposed to prevent "security problems",
          it sounds stupid.
                \_ It doesn't.  It prevents spammers from using soda to
                   spam the world, and prevents root from getting flooded
                   with mail complaints every time spammers do.  (Which
                   has happened lately - this isn't theoretical.)
          \_ It only sounds stupid, because you don't have a clue.
                \_ I went to the clue farm yesterday and bought a new born
                   clue.  I'm starting my own herd.
                        \_ You couldn't catch a clue if you covered yourself
                           in clue musk and stood in a field of horny clues
                           in the middle of clue mating season.
                           \_ That's why I'm starting my own clue herd with
                              some clue I bought at the clue farm.  No
                              catching required.
                                \_ Hey, that sounds like a clue... where can
                                   I get one?  How much do they cost?  URL?
1998/7/8-10 [Computer/SW/Graphics] UID:14302 Activity:nil
7/7     Wind River, Zinc to duel Win CE
        \_ Don't they already have something called windX?
         \_ they have a port of X11 from a 3rd party
            and Navio's graphics software as well.
                \_ There is no Navio, only NCI!
            All graphics components have different characteristics
            and resource requirements, Zinc's ZAF being the least
            demanding of resources. --daveh
            \_ do I sense an impending resurgence of Zinc Haiku? -ERic
               \_ Wind River Systems
                  Vee Eks Works Real Time Ohh Ess
                  Now Has Zinc for you
1998/7/8-10 [Uncategorized] UID:14303 Activity:moderate
7/8     tpc and geordan now demoted to commoner. Demigod status is earned
        by merit only. Demigods and angels should not vote for each other.
        Rules enforced by HappyCop (tpc and geordan). Read the new rules.
        \_ Shut up, cmlee.
        \_ How long until kchang sells out to u$oft and you see
           "Happy, by Microsoft", just like you did with Hotmail.
        \_They were really demoted because they discovered kchang's
          mom was no longer tight enough for her softball fetish, and
          began supplying her with volleyballs. -meyers
1998/7/8 [Computer/SW/WWW/Browsers] UID:14304 Activity:nil
7/8     root@cory looking for student to run around yelling "No food in labs!"
        and answer mail saying "Netscape gives bus errors because it sucks."
        and they pay you $17/hour - <DEAD>www-inst.eecs/~iesg/jobs.html<DEAD>
1998/7/8-10 [Computer/SW/Languages/C_Cplusplus] UID:14305 Activity:moderate
7/8     Anyone know where I can find C++ libraries that handle infinite
        precision numbers?
        \_ Check out the gmp library from GNU.  I think gmp stands for
           GNU Multi-Precision.  I used this library and it works great.
           I highly recommend it over BigNums.  The gmp library
           is actually a C library but you can use it with C++ or write
           wrappers if you want object oriented stuff. -emin
           \_ What functions does it provide?  Only +-*/?  trigonometric?
                 It provides +-/*><, log, exp, gcd, and some others.
                 I don't think it provides trig functions. -emin
                 \_ What gmp lacks in trigonometry, you can compensate
                    for it with a polynomial approximation.  -- tmonroe
        \_ Um, unless you have a machine with infinite memory, I don't
           think you will find this.  I think you're looking for an
           arbitrary precision library.  GMP looks good.  -- Mr. Nitpick
           \_ I think Mr. Nitpick should meditate on the difference between
              a library and the platform on which it runs.  --pld
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:1998:July:08 Wednesday <Tuesday, Thursday>